View Full Version : The dark side...why?
I am curious...why choose the dark side over that of the light or shadow?
What is it that makes the dark side so apealing? Why does it work for you?
(I am light by nature, so if you choose to tempt me, go ahead it will only strengthen my resolve.)
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-10-2006, 05:29
I chose the dark side because I fell in love with Anakin in Episode two. Anakin's choice in Episode III made sense to me under the circumstances. I also liked Palpatines statement in the opera sceen, saying that a Sith uses both light and dark side of the force in balance. This idea of balanceing both is expressed in the Yin/ Yang of the chinese. In Shamanism balanceing medicine is core to the study of animal totems. Before christanity was changed in Ecclesiastes balance is descussed in the form, A time to love a time to hate. I time to hurt a time to heal and so on. Of course because it is in the old testament it was also part of Judism. The Kabalah has the concept of Yin/ Yang too. many religions express dueality. Since the Force has both light and dark side I like to see the Force "From a Larger View" Palpatine. I have a totems lecture running with each totem as requested in Force Fallowers United. It is a message board of both Sith and Jedi. Both are expected to be respectful of each others differances. If you wish to see my totems lectures the web address is; http://jediofamerica.proboards44.com/
I have an indept view of how I see the Star Wars movies on my web site. It also goes in dept of how I feel about Anakin/ Vader. I go into the esoteric symbolism and the historical materialism of Star Wars. My web site address is; http://users.arczip.com/redtailedhawk
Between the little I said here and the two links I gave you it should help yuo understand why I chose the dark side. I can not answer for any other Sith on this board. These opinions are mine alone. Every Sith has his or her reason for makeing their choice so each person will have to answer as an individual.
I hate to be a pain, but i started a Thread much like this one already, why dont you get back there ?
"I also liked Palpatines statement in the opera sceen, saying that a Sith uses both light and dark side of the force in balance. This idea of balanceing both is expressed in the Yin/ Yang of the chinese. "-Mrs. Darth Vador
-Isn't that more a shadow point of view? Or am I mistaken somehow? Can you give me an example of Palpatine using the light side or was he saying that as a way to lure Anakin towards the dark side?
Azazel, I did see it and I wanted to take it a different perspective. I didn't really see a real answer there. How does being a darksider effect you in your life? Actual examples (whether real or symbolic would help)
Just for the record...I want to come just short of empathizing with your point of view so I can actually understand it as well as I possibly can even given our differences.
The light side and the dark side have to get along, so to do this, we must try to understand each other. If we don't get along then our two sides will have a constantly annoying, and not to mention pointless, 'battle' [by battle I mean arguements, bickering...] between the two. Don't you think?
Darth Devious
03-11-2006, 03:21
Diana, in answer to your question. Power. In addition, powers sibling, money.
Let me explain.
Have you noticed that our world, especially the western world, runs on money and power as fuel. Our employers pay as little as they can get away with for our hard work, then we get charged as much as possible for services and products. Ipods are an excellent example. An Ipod video costs $300 dollars american, but only costs apple about $50 or so to make it. And that is nothing compared to the $0.99 per song rate on itunes.
Right now, the cost of gas here in maryland is about $2.30/gallon. Everywhere I turn, I am getting ripped off. Predators are working night and day to figure out new ways to take my hard earned money.
Our world runs off money. We live in a climate of runaway greed. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins of the bible. So it could be argued that we live in a Satanic society. Most right wing christians and followers of Anton Lavey would agree on this point.
A sith lord is nothing but a demon in the Star Wars world. A real life demon would be working to find a way to make this greedy world work to his advantage. So in my mind, a real life sith is a satanist who borrows philosphies from Star Wars. If you really want to know the dark side, why dont you read the Satanic Bible by Anton Lavey. It is available at most bookstore, unless its banned in your area. Most of the philosphies of the sith are present in that book.
I work hard, get paid ****, and see all my money get wasted by taxes and other bills. It makes me mad. I have a government that seeks to control my life through taxes, surviallance, or police.
It is ironic that most people in western society think they are free, when they are really slaves. They are slaves to the economy, which is controlled by CEO's, rich people and the government.
I think someone once said "The best slave is one who does not know he is a slave" That is us.
So, to paraphrase yoda. I fear my government. I am angry at business. I hate our society. So I wish to circumvent them, and this brings me power. I am trapped in this society, but I plan to have my revenge by doing what I want to do covertly. That desire makes me sith. I am not a cowardly sheeple, then I would be Jedi.
"if you obey the law overtly, then you can break the law covertly" I am Sith, and I could never live the limited life of a Jedi. I like to do what I want.
have I answered you question?
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-11-2006, 04:19
"I also liked Palpatines statement in the opera sceen, saying that a Sith uses both light and dark side of the force in balance. This idea of balanceing both is expressed in the Yin/ Yang of the chinese. "-Mrs. Darth Vador
-Isn't that more a shadow point of view? Or am I mistaken somehow? Can you give me an example of Palpatine using the light side or was he saying that as a way to lure Anakin towards the dark side?
Azazel, I did see it and I wanted to take it a different perspective. I didn't really see a real answer there. How does being a darksider effect you in your life? Actual examples (whether real or symbolic would help) Palpatine used the light side from Episode I-III with Anakin because he was nice and kind in his guidence to anakin. Anakin said to Obi-Wan " he looked after me and befriended me ever since I arrived." If you read the Darth Maul Journal Palpatine raises Darth Maul as one would raise a junk yard dog. He used no light side stuff in Maul's training but with Anakin Palpatine was warm and loveing. This was shown in Episode II and in Episode III from Anakin's statement of how befriended him it was clear there was an equal exchange of effection as father to son relationship. When Vader was found by Palpatine on Mustafar Ian McDiarmid said in an interview that He was instructed to show compassion from Palpatine to Vader. So in the sceen where Palpatine says "He's alive." and shows genuine relief to see Vader is still alive and compassion on Palpatine's face. Also Palpatine gently places hand on Vader's forhead agian he was showing compassion on Vader. Compassion is the highest light side trait I know. If that is not useing the light side than what is? Jesus was most famous for his compassion. The next thing Palpatine does for Vader is while on the ship while bringing Vader back to Corisant is he has this medical kit with potions for healing. On the trip, unfortunatly the auidiance does not get to see this, Palpatine uses his potions and did incantations to prepare Vader for the hospital where we see Vader get the suit. These incantations increase Vaders powers 10 fold, Thus palpatine gave Vader power for free. To give agift without requireing the person to earn it is also a light side thing. If the Force( God) does a healing or bestows a gift without requireing payment this is an act of mercy hence use of thelight side. Some where on this message board I describe the hospital sceen much to the shagrin of the only use the dark side set no balance so if you want you can look at the thread intitled " Doctor Palpatine ". I also describe the resurection symbolism in that artical. I believe the Force at the top is both light and dark getting along in unison. One God that is not at war with himself/herself. According to the Episode III the Sith use both light and dark side. So I was going by the movie. As to Shadow that is an invention of people on the message boards so if shadow uses both light and dark side in balance than I would concider them Sith. A shadow person will have to answer since I am a Sith.
As you see if there were 10 Sith in a room you will get 10 different oppinions as to what a Sith is. Darthdivious says it is a Levey style Satanist which is how he views the Sith. I do not because to me when the Sith took power they did so in communist fashon. The church ( Jedi ) were killed. Remember the Stalin pograms? then the trade federation ( capitalists ) were killed. Only communist revolutions kill both organized religion and capital. I read Anton Levey he is very Republican. Today's christians are also republican. Palpatine was No republican. Here you would have to use the link I gave to my web site to see my full analisis of Star Wars. Did you look. I believe in equal distrabutionism. The light side of communism is all that Health care, equal distrabution of the wealth. The dark side is the necessary Big government to keep all the jerks at bay. There are no Warlords in communism.
Darth Devious,
I do not think Satanists are what you think they are. Evil is a very real thing and it is much worse than greed, tyranny and so forth; they are simply tools to be employed to snare people into their dark clutches. Our society is flawed and idiotic at times, but satanic? No. Satanism is a very dark thing, much darker than any on this site can understand. I have met some Satanists…trust me I know what I’m talking about on this.
The dark side is not in my mind evil. Evil is much, much worse than the dark side presented on this site from what I’ve read.
And no, I do not wish to read the Satanic bible…it is a perversion to me that I will not touch. As a Catholic I cannot. I live in an area that has such people and I have seen the result of their dark rituals of sacrifice (sheep, horses, cows and birds). I don’t pretend to understand why they do things like this, but I cannot see people on this site behaving in this manner.
Trying to understand the dark side is far from understanding evil. They are similar, yes, but very different.
(this is not meant to insult, but I have had training by the Church I grew up in on this matter.)
Mrs. Darth Vador,
I don’t agree with Palpatine being kind. I think Palpatine was using his ‘compassion,’ as a way to get Anakin to feel comfortable with him and to manipulate him. If you remember in ROTJ Palpatine decided to let Luke kill Anakin and take his place as his new apprentice. Is that compassion? That is power over another person, manipulation and to me a disregard for life and uncompassion. He healed him, yes, but why did he heal him? Out of compassion? I think he did it because he saw Anakin as a valuable asset.
By the way I may be Jedi and I may have some Christian beliefs, but I am not a republican. I am non-partisan. I vote for the best person for the job, and I vote for the good of all.
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-12-2006, 00:56
You are wrong, Palpatine did have compassion on Vader in Episode III because I own the coppy of the interview with Ian McDiarmid, In the Star Wars Insider. Ian McDiarmid made it quite clear that he way glad that Lucas scripted in those two sceens to show that Palpatine in fact had compassion on Anakin.
If you are the Christain exception to being a republican than you are rare. In S.W. Florida where I live christian equils republican. All the christians in government are republican. They are useually like Newt Gingerich.
Lucas did say he wanted people to see things differently from when he made the first Trilogy. By Ep. VI. Palpatine was consumed with his power and betrayed Vader. They got along in the early days.
Empress Palpatine
03-12-2006, 05:52
I am sure there are many sorts of Satanists. Not all of them kill things in the night. For some it is philosophical. This is where those who are have to explain better. Sith does not neccessarily equal Satanist, even if there are similarities in some ways. I usually equate Sith with Indian Tantrism (Shiva and Shakti).
Compassion with an ulterior motive...hmmmm....Christian missionaries would then stand accused. How many times has someone helped someone hoping to sway them to their religion or ideology?
Mrs. Darth Vador,
“You are wrong”
Right and wrong…they are things of perception. Are you right? Or am I wrong? We can’t ever know this for certain…this is why one debates things.
“They got along in the early days.”
I guess my question to this would be; why did they get along so well?
Empress Palpatine,
“Sith does not neccessarily equal Satanist”
Now that I agree with! There are varying degrees of darkness. And from what I can tell not all darksiders even have the same Sith philosophies.
“Compassion with an ulterior motive...hmmmm....Christian missionaries would then stand accused. How many times has someone helped someone hoping to sway them to their religion or ideology?”
Again...I agree with you. Christians in general are idiots…and yes this is coming from a Christian! Most of them confuse their way with being the only way. There are many ways of faith, they just can’t see past their own narrow view. Religion is not in my mind a good thing. Faith, however, is.
Empress Palpatine
03-12-2006, 22:01
That is why I left the church...because they are fake. I think that if I had actually met Jesus back in his time, I would have liked him. He was a rebel against the system of his time, and I think we would have agreed. Christians now are part of the system, the very system Jesus would have condemned.
Darth-Trayer
03-13-2006, 03:33
I personally think Palpatine did what he had to, to get what he wanted. He had to "look" nice so as not to scare away Anakin, he needed him and he know how to gain his trust. Most people do what they need to do, to get what they want.
Also I personally have choose sith mainly cause I am a very emotional person. I have learned to control them or let them out as needed. (got to love Pisces) Some things just arnt written in the stars :) Also I have always found a tug toward darkness. I guess it seams to suit me best.
Darth Trayer
Darth Devious
03-13-2006, 05:02
Diane,
Have you notice the one thing that we sith have in common. It is not who we are, but what we want that motivites us. We are about the self, jedi are selfless. If you would read Lavey, you would see that he is also about the self. Satanism is a very selfish religion. Satanists put themselves first, just like sith.
Empress Palpatine
03-13-2006, 06:26
I think everyone is selfish. It is just that only some admit it. Even saints are selfish. They like the attention and the admiration given to "holy" people. They like their positions of influence. Even to desire heaven or paradise focusses on the self, to have paradise for who?...me!
I read LaVey's Satanic Bible. He just admits that he wants to enjoy what there is to enjoy without limit, without feeling somehow guilty for indulging. He is just being more honest than the holy Joes.
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-13-2006, 06:39
First of all let me appologize, Diana. My temper reacted faster than my brain. When I said you are wrong it was because I got angry. I thought that you were agnoreing the fact that, in my opinion, I had an open shut case in defence of Palpatine since the actor who played him said that He was to be copassionate for real not a fake minipulation. Another wards Lucas wanted Palpatine in this sceen to ACTUALY have compassion. Note I use capital letters to enphasize a word since to my knowledge the computer does not allow you to underline as you would do if it were a real letter. Since the actor was actually told be Lucas himself I took that to be that since Lucas was the creator of Star Wars I figured his word to be the last so to speak. So I took it that you just wanted to be disagreeable so the temper flared and out came my red lightsaber, Sorry.
I believe that Palpatine is capable of compassion because he said the Sith use both light and dark side of the Force in balance. His Empire clearly had both light and dark traits. This was a Big government with all the trimmings. Health care, equal pay and all the job security that comes with a communist state. That is the light side of the Empire. The dark side is if you cross either Palpatine or Vader you will get choked. Many had to die to win the revolution this though necessary would be considerd dark side.
I am a Sith for the reason stated earlier by someone else before me on this board. I am an emotional person and I do not believe in stuffing a single emotion. To stuff your feelings only leads to stress or worse cancer. Both are not good. I have a temper and get angry so I would be lieing to say I was Jedi because the Jedi look down on anger. I also Love Anakin/ Vader too much not to go where he goes. If you saw my personal web site you would at least get a flavor of who I am as well as Anakin/ Vader. My web site is not in compotition with this one because my web site is not a message board it is one you read and you can E-Mail me and that is it. I do not expect you to agree with my analisis since I am sure we are differant, you being Jedi and I Sith.
As you can see we Sith do not have a dogmatic view of the Force because each Sith sees it differantly than each other Sith. Darth Devious sees it as selfish and therefore satanist. Which is his choice and his belief as a Sith. I think a Sith can be both selfish and alteristic because to do both is to balance the Force. To be just selfish is only useing the dark side absent of light. To be just alteristic is to be only useing the light and again no balance. To do both equally is balanceing the Force. I believe a Sith does both. And yes I do believe Palpatine.
For starters, i dont belive that we should mix stanism and sith.
Its clear that its has a similar negative charge in it, but 99% of that negative part is been transmitted from the catholic church, that, as we all know, havent got this much powerfull by beeing only good guys, exactly the oposite.
Catholic priests also have flaws, and the religion is filled with those flaws.
But what can one do ? Its not easy to go agains everything our parents teached us for so long.
In that, the sith, are quite diferent.
We accept the "burden" of beeing the "bad guys", but we also have the advantage of been able to say that we fought to see beyond what was forced us to see, for we broke the chains of "goodness", independently of beeing jedi or christian, budist or whatever.
To me beeing a sith, and embrancing the dark side is more than eyes can tell, its fighting standars, trying new explainations to things and to human flaws, and to take advantage of those flaws, but in a open chest, and courage to say it.
We as sith dont have a need for all those trials jedi do, simply because, by saying that we are sith, it already comes with a period of thinking and knowledge.
we are small in numbers, but even that is good.
Call us unruly mob, we may as well be that, but why should we accept orders when we do our best to make our rules go foward ?
Empress Palpatine (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=12):
“Christians now are part of the system, the very system Jesus would have condemned.”
-very good point there! J They are very reminiscent of the Pharoses aren’t they?
Darth-Trayer (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=11):
“I personally think Palpatine did what he had to, to get what he wanted. He had to "look" nice so as not to scare away Anakin, he needed him and he know how to gain his trust. Most people do what they need to do, to get what they want.”
-Exactly the point I was trying to make. J Palpatine was very efficient at what he did.
darthdevious (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=14):
“Have you notice the one thing that we Sith have in common. It is not who we are, but what we want that motivates us. We are about the self, Jedi are selfless.”
-I never thought of it that way. Makes sense. Not all Jedi are selfless though, we aren’t perfect. Many of us have a selfish streak in them; it is just so difficult to be truly selfless.
Empress Palpatine (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=12):
“I think everyone is selfish. It is just that only some admit it. Even saints are selfish. They like the attention and the admiration given to "holy" people. They like their positions of influence. Even to desire heaven or paradise focuses on the self, to have paradise for who?...me!”
-I sort of agree there. Many Jedi are more selfish than they think. I do think that many who believe they are selfless but they, as you say, are doing it to go to heaven. It’s a tricky thing isn’t it? I personally don’t believe that I have a choice in whether I go to heaven or hell. I think that there are parts of me that even I can’t see that the Lord knows only too well. If he so decides it, I may very well go to hell. I don’t believe as many Protestant Christians do that if you asked to be saved by Christ that you will go to heaven. You have to earn that right, and not by your standards, but the Lord’s standards. So I prefer to not think about the ‘endgame,’ I focus on the present, on the living force.
I will not say I am selfless, I have my flaws. Like sometimes I can be lazy. I prefer to focus on my schoolwork rather than spend my time helping others. (I still do, but not as much) And I choose not to date people, which seems to be a selfless thing, but I do it to protect my own heart from breaking, so is that really selfless. Nope…it’s selfish as hell.
Mrs. Darth Vador,
I missed your reply when I posted the one above. oops. I was not upset at all by your reaction. In fact I felt bad that I made you upset. You need not recall your thoughts on it, your opinion is your own and we surely do not have to agree to everything. Tone is nearly impossible to read, too bad you can't hear voices, that would tell us the emotions that are felt a little better. ;)
To clarify, I never intend to sound mean in my posts, so please don't take it that way. In fact I have yet to ever get mad at anyone on this site...other's opinions do not affect me. It is good to know that you feel Palpatine has a compassionate streak because it helps me better understand the darksiders on this site. :D
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-14-2006, 05:59
Diana I guess we were ships in the night. That is ok since it was only a mistake. Since you are Jedi what kind are you? I ask because even though Star Wars does not differenciate kinds of Jedi it seems the internet has many brands. So are you light, dark or shadow? Interesting a catholic that believes in predestonation. I know that the presbytarians are big time believers in pre destonation because their founder John Calvin preached it. When I was catholic they preach all can go to heavan by being catholic and doing all the sacraments and good works. They also were big on suffering. Needless to say I left. I liked the Baptists better they offered free will. Then Ronald Wilson Reagan ruined everything and said God does not like you if you are poor and you must be a republican. So I left them also. I then started to read many religions like Bhudhism, Hindhuism,Taoism,Shamanism,Masonry,Shintu,the norse religion,Wicca,The Kabalah and so on. Now I have a vast knowledge of many religions and can enjoy them all. We can still talk about what you are curious about as to my dark side or Sith views are. If you want to share your Jedi views I would like to know If you want. How do you view catholocism? Do you still go to mass? Do you put the Pope first or the Bible? Are you an independant catholic? Do you read your Bible your self or do you wait for the priest to tell you? How did you underline on the computer? You are obviously computer savy.
Good point Azzazel. Sith are not satanists. I never equated the two either. Though I Think that Darth Devious has the right to think what he thinks as do we.
“Interesting a catholic that believes in predestonation. I know that the presbytarians are big time believers in pre destonation because their founder John Calvin preached it. “
-I am very different in my beliefs than catholics, but it is closest to my views.
“When I was catholic they preach all can go to heavan by being catholic and doing all the sacraments and good works. “
-This is why I don’t go to church often.
“We can still talk about what you are curious about as to my dark side or Sith views are. If you want to share your Jedi views I would like to know If you want. How do you view catholocism? Do you still go to mass? Do you put the Pope first or the Bible? Are you an independant catholic? Do you read your Bible your self or do you wait for the priest to tell you? How did you underline on the computer? You are obviously computer savy.”
-As to your beliefs in the dark side/sith I don’t even know where to start. Lol. I’m clueless. On my Catholicism…I’m not really catholic, I don’t agree with many of the things they do, but I come close to it. I go to mass occaisionally like on Christmas, but I haven’t been in a few years. Seeing people go through the motions infuriates me. I don’t like the current Pope actually. I read the bible years ago, but not much and not recently. I don’t think a book can truly tell you how to live your life. The priest at my church doesn’t like me, I don’t donate to the church I donate to someone else instead.
There is an underline option above the textbox where you submit replies.It's an underlined U button.
Oh my Jedi beliefs are...The Force is an energy field that surrounds, binds and penetrates everything. I am a light Jedi so I feel in should never be used for personal gain or power, but to help others and generally make the world a better place. I am a Jedi Sentinel with the rank of padawan. A Sentinel is one that seeks balance between using the force and martial studies. Sentinels are students of many things, but masters of none, as Spark Vallen put it (forgot the exact words). Meaning they use many skills, but don't focus too long on anything in particular. If I were to pick another class of jedi to focus on it might be something like a weapon master. (That'll be a long time coming because I haven't mastered weaponry yet, I'm still learning.) That is only a goal for now though.
Empress Palpatine
03-15-2006, 04:10
I think there is one trait in common with those who are both Sith and Jedi: Independant thought, that is, the desire to decide for ourselves what we believe.
Darth-Trayer
03-15-2006, 04:59
I think that is more than just a jedi or sith thing.
Trayer
"I think there is one trait in common with those who are both Sith and Jedi: Independant thought, that is, the desire to decide for ourselves what we believe." -Empress Palpatine
Well put, I totally agree.
I'm glad that my comments aren't being taken the wrong way. I was worried about that. :)
Darth Devious
03-17-2006, 13:44
Diana, worrying about offending people shows weakness. We are Sith, we dont give a ****.
An unruly mob of free thinkers.
in europe it will be almost free masonry.but with no rigid rules.
darthdevious,
lol. I'm sure it could be seen as a weakness. And perhaps it is, but it's in my character, so if it's a flaw, then it's one of many. ;)
I know sith don't really care, I'm simply showing the same courtesies as I do to everyone else. :)
Mrs. Darth Vader
03-18-2006, 06:05
Diana Thank you for explaining your Jedi beliefs with me. I am glad you are an independant thinker, me too. I do not think that politeness a weakness it makes communication last longer. If everyone is rude to one another people get offended and stomp off which in the long run ruins the site so even as a Sith I think we can agree and disagree in a polite and orderly fashion. A message board is like a talk show interesting conversation keeps it going to much insulting one another chokes it out. A balance between lively convosation and corgeality must be maintained. So here even though I am a Sith I agree with you.
Darth Opacus
03-19-2006, 18:42
Diana-everyone has tried to answer your question of why we choose the darkside. Everyone has different reasons and different intentions. I will speak from personal experience as I answer. The darkside focuses specific emotions into power. For me, anger and the feeling of betrayal have given me the power to go through several difficult times. Without this power, I feel certain that things would not have turned out. The darkside can be dangerous for those who are not strong enough to wield it. The power can overwhelm a mind and warp it into what some people would consider evil. So, everyone who chooses the darkside or even the path of the Jedi have their own reasons. It is difficult to explain the circumstances behind the decision to follow either path unless you have lived in another's shoes.
Yes I can see what you mean.
Tell me though, how does using betrayal help you in your life? Can you give an example? I didn't know this could be 'used.'
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