Mrs. Darth Vader
05-28-2010, 20:24
Chapter fifteen starts with the earliest written accounts of the meeting between apes and humans. The account was written in the fifth century B.C. by Hanno of Cathage. They described the men as being hairy and the women as being hairy. There were more women than men. The men were considered wild men. The men escaped by throwing stones and climbing up steep cliffs. The women were not that lucky and Hanno and his humans captured three women. The women fought with all their might to get away including biting and scratching. So Hanno and his people killed the women in a brutal manner and skinned them. These wild “men” and “women” today would be called chimpanzees.
Sagan then tells about a Mayan myth about their gods. This myth is interesting.
“The ancient Mayan authors of the Popol Vuh considered monkeys to be the product of the last botched experiment conducted by the gods before they finally got it right and managed to create us. The gods meant well but they were fallible, imperfect artisans.” Page 268 Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
The interesting thing about this myth is the gods are not perfect. They make mistakes. It took the gods time to get to us. Creation is a slow process. The reason Sagan tells us this myth is it almost hints at a connection between man and monkey and the slow process of evolution. Sagan then reminds us how we have a history of being uncomfortable with our cousins the monkeys. We do not like to admit the connection. They have faces much like us but we pretend not to notice. Before Darwin our discomfort with monkeys and apes was at an unconscious level. Darwin made it a conscious discomfort by bringing it out in the open. From here Sagan brings out terms in the English language like to “go ape” is to revert back to a wild state, be untamed. These comments show in our very speech our discomfort with our cousins the monkeys and apes. Sagan then goes on for pages sighting how people are uncomfortable with monkeys, apes and chimps. They look too much like us. They seem preoccupied with sex. In many ways they act too much like us. Sagan then tells about all the people in history and how they tried to distance themselves from our primate cousins.
Sagan then introduces you to a man who invented the way scientists classify all life on earth. Carl Linnaeus invented classifications where each life form fits like; species, genus, family, order, class, phylum and kingdom. “So we humans, for example, are of the animal kingdom, the vertebrate phylum, the class of mammals, the genus Homo, and the species Homo Sapiens. In other words we’re animals not plants or fungi or bacteria; we have backbones, so we’re not invertebrates such as worms or clams; we have breasts to supply milk to the young, so we’re not reptiles or birds; we’re primates, not rats or gazelles or raccoons; and we’re Hominidae, not orangutans or vervet monkeys or lemurs. We are of the genus Homo, in which taxon there is but one species ( although once there were others-maybe many others). This is how we classify ourselves today. And it’s almost the same as what Linnaeus proposed.” Page 273 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
Linnaeus by his own criteria would have put humans and chimps in the same genus but he backed off because of the pressure from the Christian churches of his day. In the small print on the bottom of page 273 Sagan names a man who went a step further Jean-Jacques Rousseau,1753, put humans and chimps as the same species. Years later Linnaeus had regretted his decision to back down to church pressure and expressed it.
Huxley then asked the question of if you came from outer space and landed on earth would chimps, apes and man seem the same or different? Another words Huxley is wondering if someone dispassionate and detached observed humans and apes would we be considered in the same order as them? Huxley believed apes to be our closest relatives. He compared skeletal and brain anatomies of apes and humans. The apes that Huxley looked at were chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons and the gibbon like siamangs. Humans have the same number of teeth as these apes. We all have hands with thumbs and none of us have a tail. The skeletal anatomy of chimps and humans are very similar. The difference between a chimp’s brain and ours is practically insignificant. The conclusion was that apes and humans share a common ancestor. This conclusion flipped out Victorian England. Back then we could only look at bones, teeth, hands and so on but today we can look at the DNA molecule, natures Holy of Holies. We now have even stronger evidence than Darwin and Huxley. All this is thanks to molecular biology. According to DNA evidence our closest relatives are the chimps. The apes come in close second.
Sagan then gives astonishing DNA evidence of just how close we are to chimps, apes and other primates. If you look at the DNA evidence nucleotide by nucleotide which includes the “nonsense” sequences we are very close to the fallowing primates: Chimpanzees to humans are 1.7%. Gorillas and humans 1.8%. Humans and orangutans 3.3%. Humans and gibbons 4.3%. These are the closest. Anything under 5% is a real close match. The last two named we are more distantly related. Humans and rhesus monkeys is 7% difference in DNA sequences. Finally last on the list is humans to lemurs 22% different. The more the DNA sequences differ the further back in time you have to go before we have a common ancestor. All these percentages are DNA sequences including the inactive genes of nonsense. If you only look at the active, working genes we share 99.6% of our genes in common with the chimp. Another words only .4% of our working genes differ from a chimp. Now that is pretty close.
Sagan describes in detail the two methods of DNA testing to see how closely related two animals are to one another. It shows just how accurate molecular biology is. The interesting thing is that after all this genetic testing humans and chimps end up being more related to one another than chimps to orangutans. This fact I found compelling and interesting. Here one can easily make the joke about how God made man but God made chimp to keep us humble because chimps wear their faults as well as their good qualities right on their “sleeves” so to speak. Chimps hide nothing except fear. You might say they expose us and our true nature. Gorillas are in second place as to close relations to both chimps and humans. “By these standards (DNA sequences genetics), humans and chimps are about as closely related as horses and donkeys, and we are closer relatives than rats and mice, or turkeys and chickens or camels and llamas.” Page 277 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors by Carl Sagan.
Sagan reminds us not to get so offended at the thought of being so closely related to chimps that we close our eyes to the lessons this could teach us. By observing chimp, especially in the wild, we learn about ourselves. Sagan here tries to get the reader to look squarely at him/ her self and our humble origins. From here Sagan tells us we must be balanced and objective when studying animals. He warns against over anthropomorphizing animals. Sagan more sternly warns about the other extreme, which is to claim that animals are incapable of feeling pain or emotions. Animals as just running programs and you can do any ruthless thing you like to an animal. Sagan clearly warns against this behavior. Sagan did not like the Behaviorist view of just manipulating animals and people to make them behave the way you want them to with out regard to their feelings or harm you cause on these living beings. In the last analysis, Sagan admits it is better to lean towards giving animals credit of similar feelings to us rather than the cold hearted view of total contempt for life as expressed by the behaviorists. Sagan was no lover of B.F. Skinner. In a later book written by Carl Sagan, Sagan gave credit to American Indian Shamans for their attempt to try to understand nature and the animals. Sagan said that in his book called “The Demon Haunted World” Science As A Candlelight In The Dark.
Sagan then begins a subsection in this chapter with the shocker for the reader of his book. Here those of you miss the value of this by only reading my summery or in this case (spoiler). Sagan now informs you about the secret about Gangland (the chapter just before this one). Gangland was a dialog about chimp life. Here Sagan gave a voice to the chimps. This is why one could only read chapter 14 for themselves because here the summery could never portray the feel the way it was written. The information that Sagan used to write Gangland was provided by Jane Goodall who studied chimps at the Gombe Reservation in Tanzania. She is most famous for living among chimps and gorillas in the wild. The dramatized accounts were events that actually happened and were documented by scientists working with Jane Goodall. Sagan then notes how interesting it is that chimp society resembles many human societies especially the tough guy societies. The chimps were similar to street gangs, prisons, some cities, motorcycle gangs, crime syndicates and absolute monarchies.
Chimp society resembles human societies that are very stressful. Chimp males have short fuses. Chimps will openly display their sexual parts. They use and make tools. Surprisingly they hold grudges and resentments. They have thoughts of revenge just like us. And like us they get revenge when an opening presents itself. They even plan future courses of actions. Chimps have learned more human words than humans have learned chimp language. When chimps see their own reflection in a mirror they recognize themselves. They have self awareness like us. Chimps keep secrets. They lie. They oppress the weak like we do. They can also help the weak at times like us. They strive for social advancement as we do and career opportunities just like us to name a few things we share with the world of the chimp. Chimps can also communicate with one another as we do to each other. We just do not know their language. Here it is good to note that other animals communicate with one another as well. It is just that humans never bothered to learn animal languages so to us the animals just make sounds but for that matter a human foreign language sounds just like sounds to one who has no familiarity with the language spoken. Animals such as chimp, dog, cat, hawk and so on all can talk to each other. We are the ones who miss out since no one has taken the time to really communicate with the animals save the ancient American Indian Shamans.
Sagan then describes an experiment on chimps which proved that they do in fact communicate with one another. One chimp was chosen to be showed where food would be hidden or a fake snake or fake alligator. If it was food the chimps would all leave their cage acting calm and go right to the food. Some times the food would be secretly removed by the scientists, after the chosen chimp had been put back with the other chimps. When released the chimps would still look for the food based on what the “chosen” chimp told them. If it was the snake or alligator, the chimps would all get close to each other picking up sticks and rocks and together go to where the snake or alligator is. The chimps also showed agitation before getting to the sight where the snake or alligator was. They were agitated as soon as the chimps were put in the enclosure where the snake or alligator was hidden. Again showing that the “chosen” chimp had informed the others. These items would be hidden on the grounds and only the “chosen” chimp was shown where the items were. The other chimps were put some where they could not see where the “chosen” chimp was shown. Only through communication could the chimps know where to go.
Sagan shows how chimps are very similar to us by showing their good traits as well as their bad traits. He starts by showing how chimps can love each other and care for each other. Both adults and children play. They play more if food supplies are plentiful. Male chimps will protect both female and children from attacks. But this sweetness can turn on a dime. The male will suddenly get violent if competition for dominance arises. The same male who was playing and being kind to chimp children would suddenly grab an innocent by standing child chimp and slam it to the ground in rage. Chimps pick on the runt of the litter. They will pick on the weak just like humans do. Females are picked on as well. There is no women’s liberation in chimp society. There are still human societies where the female is clearly lesser as much as any chimp society. The male is not the only vicious one. Female some times will steal another chimp’s child kill it and eat it. Chimps will eat their own. Sagan gives an example of a chimp child who is playing with a colubus monkey when an adult chimp just comes by and kills the colubus monkey and everyone starts eating it including the chimp child who moments ago was playing with it. The next statement says it all.
“Those who are moved to mercy eat less and leave fewer off spring. Clearly chimps do not recognize monkeys, or chimps of other groups, or even members of their own group as deserving mercy or other moral considerations” Page 287 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
Where I live I know people who do not recognize their own children or fellow American. Here chimps are portrayed as “Orks” on “Lord Of The Rings”. In Episode II called “Two Towers” of the “Lord Of The Rings” trilogy the orks want fresh meat so they decide that the hobbits might taste good but the Urhukie leader does not let them. One ork got extra aggressive to get meat that the leader killed him. The leader then tells the others that “It looks like meet is back on the menu.”. The orks then all dive in and begin eating a fellow ork who was just killed. When reading about chimps I was surprised to find out just how violent and heartless they were.
Sagan ends the chapter with how chimps go on patrols to guard their turf. This Sagan got from Jane Goodall’s notes. The chimps showed amazing ability to keep silent the whole time unlike their usual behavior. They also showed tracking skills, like looking at disguarded food wedges, feces, dropped termite tools and whether a sleeping nest is fresh or not. Chimps also know how to walk through forests with out rustling the bushes. Chimps do not do frontal or line combat. Chimps do guerilla tactics. They pick off one or two at a time from the neighboring territory. They continue this tactic until the neighboring chimp group no longer has enough of a force to defend that territory. The males from the other tribe are killed. The females are captured and must serve the winning chimps. Ancient human kings did this practice as well. They had Concubines. Sagan then tells us that being a male chimp is like being in the army. This means that gene selection in chimp societies include military skills. So strength is not the only thing necessary for chimp survival. This chapter ended on an interesting note. Military skills can be inherited.
Sagan then tells about a Mayan myth about their gods. This myth is interesting.
“The ancient Mayan authors of the Popol Vuh considered monkeys to be the product of the last botched experiment conducted by the gods before they finally got it right and managed to create us. The gods meant well but they were fallible, imperfect artisans.” Page 268 Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
The interesting thing about this myth is the gods are not perfect. They make mistakes. It took the gods time to get to us. Creation is a slow process. The reason Sagan tells us this myth is it almost hints at a connection between man and monkey and the slow process of evolution. Sagan then reminds us how we have a history of being uncomfortable with our cousins the monkeys. We do not like to admit the connection. They have faces much like us but we pretend not to notice. Before Darwin our discomfort with monkeys and apes was at an unconscious level. Darwin made it a conscious discomfort by bringing it out in the open. From here Sagan brings out terms in the English language like to “go ape” is to revert back to a wild state, be untamed. These comments show in our very speech our discomfort with our cousins the monkeys and apes. Sagan then goes on for pages sighting how people are uncomfortable with monkeys, apes and chimps. They look too much like us. They seem preoccupied with sex. In many ways they act too much like us. Sagan then tells about all the people in history and how they tried to distance themselves from our primate cousins.
Sagan then introduces you to a man who invented the way scientists classify all life on earth. Carl Linnaeus invented classifications where each life form fits like; species, genus, family, order, class, phylum and kingdom. “So we humans, for example, are of the animal kingdom, the vertebrate phylum, the class of mammals, the genus Homo, and the species Homo Sapiens. In other words we’re animals not plants or fungi or bacteria; we have backbones, so we’re not invertebrates such as worms or clams; we have breasts to supply milk to the young, so we’re not reptiles or birds; we’re primates, not rats or gazelles or raccoons; and we’re Hominidae, not orangutans or vervet monkeys or lemurs. We are of the genus Homo, in which taxon there is but one species ( although once there were others-maybe many others). This is how we classify ourselves today. And it’s almost the same as what Linnaeus proposed.” Page 273 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
Linnaeus by his own criteria would have put humans and chimps in the same genus but he backed off because of the pressure from the Christian churches of his day. In the small print on the bottom of page 273 Sagan names a man who went a step further Jean-Jacques Rousseau,1753, put humans and chimps as the same species. Years later Linnaeus had regretted his decision to back down to church pressure and expressed it.
Huxley then asked the question of if you came from outer space and landed on earth would chimps, apes and man seem the same or different? Another words Huxley is wondering if someone dispassionate and detached observed humans and apes would we be considered in the same order as them? Huxley believed apes to be our closest relatives. He compared skeletal and brain anatomies of apes and humans. The apes that Huxley looked at were chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons and the gibbon like siamangs. Humans have the same number of teeth as these apes. We all have hands with thumbs and none of us have a tail. The skeletal anatomy of chimps and humans are very similar. The difference between a chimp’s brain and ours is practically insignificant. The conclusion was that apes and humans share a common ancestor. This conclusion flipped out Victorian England. Back then we could only look at bones, teeth, hands and so on but today we can look at the DNA molecule, natures Holy of Holies. We now have even stronger evidence than Darwin and Huxley. All this is thanks to molecular biology. According to DNA evidence our closest relatives are the chimps. The apes come in close second.
Sagan then gives astonishing DNA evidence of just how close we are to chimps, apes and other primates. If you look at the DNA evidence nucleotide by nucleotide which includes the “nonsense” sequences we are very close to the fallowing primates: Chimpanzees to humans are 1.7%. Gorillas and humans 1.8%. Humans and orangutans 3.3%. Humans and gibbons 4.3%. These are the closest. Anything under 5% is a real close match. The last two named we are more distantly related. Humans and rhesus monkeys is 7% difference in DNA sequences. Finally last on the list is humans to lemurs 22% different. The more the DNA sequences differ the further back in time you have to go before we have a common ancestor. All these percentages are DNA sequences including the inactive genes of nonsense. If you only look at the active, working genes we share 99.6% of our genes in common with the chimp. Another words only .4% of our working genes differ from a chimp. Now that is pretty close.
Sagan describes in detail the two methods of DNA testing to see how closely related two animals are to one another. It shows just how accurate molecular biology is. The interesting thing is that after all this genetic testing humans and chimps end up being more related to one another than chimps to orangutans. This fact I found compelling and interesting. Here one can easily make the joke about how God made man but God made chimp to keep us humble because chimps wear their faults as well as their good qualities right on their “sleeves” so to speak. Chimps hide nothing except fear. You might say they expose us and our true nature. Gorillas are in second place as to close relations to both chimps and humans. “By these standards (DNA sequences genetics), humans and chimps are about as closely related as horses and donkeys, and we are closer relatives than rats and mice, or turkeys and chickens or camels and llamas.” Page 277 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors by Carl Sagan.
Sagan reminds us not to get so offended at the thought of being so closely related to chimps that we close our eyes to the lessons this could teach us. By observing chimp, especially in the wild, we learn about ourselves. Sagan here tries to get the reader to look squarely at him/ her self and our humble origins. From here Sagan tells us we must be balanced and objective when studying animals. He warns against over anthropomorphizing animals. Sagan more sternly warns about the other extreme, which is to claim that animals are incapable of feeling pain or emotions. Animals as just running programs and you can do any ruthless thing you like to an animal. Sagan clearly warns against this behavior. Sagan did not like the Behaviorist view of just manipulating animals and people to make them behave the way you want them to with out regard to their feelings or harm you cause on these living beings. In the last analysis, Sagan admits it is better to lean towards giving animals credit of similar feelings to us rather than the cold hearted view of total contempt for life as expressed by the behaviorists. Sagan was no lover of B.F. Skinner. In a later book written by Carl Sagan, Sagan gave credit to American Indian Shamans for their attempt to try to understand nature and the animals. Sagan said that in his book called “The Demon Haunted World” Science As A Candlelight In The Dark.
Sagan then begins a subsection in this chapter with the shocker for the reader of his book. Here those of you miss the value of this by only reading my summery or in this case (spoiler). Sagan now informs you about the secret about Gangland (the chapter just before this one). Gangland was a dialog about chimp life. Here Sagan gave a voice to the chimps. This is why one could only read chapter 14 for themselves because here the summery could never portray the feel the way it was written. The information that Sagan used to write Gangland was provided by Jane Goodall who studied chimps at the Gombe Reservation in Tanzania. She is most famous for living among chimps and gorillas in the wild. The dramatized accounts were events that actually happened and were documented by scientists working with Jane Goodall. Sagan then notes how interesting it is that chimp society resembles many human societies especially the tough guy societies. The chimps were similar to street gangs, prisons, some cities, motorcycle gangs, crime syndicates and absolute monarchies.
Chimp society resembles human societies that are very stressful. Chimp males have short fuses. Chimps will openly display their sexual parts. They use and make tools. Surprisingly they hold grudges and resentments. They have thoughts of revenge just like us. And like us they get revenge when an opening presents itself. They even plan future courses of actions. Chimps have learned more human words than humans have learned chimp language. When chimps see their own reflection in a mirror they recognize themselves. They have self awareness like us. Chimps keep secrets. They lie. They oppress the weak like we do. They can also help the weak at times like us. They strive for social advancement as we do and career opportunities just like us to name a few things we share with the world of the chimp. Chimps can also communicate with one another as we do to each other. We just do not know their language. Here it is good to note that other animals communicate with one another as well. It is just that humans never bothered to learn animal languages so to us the animals just make sounds but for that matter a human foreign language sounds just like sounds to one who has no familiarity with the language spoken. Animals such as chimp, dog, cat, hawk and so on all can talk to each other. We are the ones who miss out since no one has taken the time to really communicate with the animals save the ancient American Indian Shamans.
Sagan then describes an experiment on chimps which proved that they do in fact communicate with one another. One chimp was chosen to be showed where food would be hidden or a fake snake or fake alligator. If it was food the chimps would all leave their cage acting calm and go right to the food. Some times the food would be secretly removed by the scientists, after the chosen chimp had been put back with the other chimps. When released the chimps would still look for the food based on what the “chosen” chimp told them. If it was the snake or alligator, the chimps would all get close to each other picking up sticks and rocks and together go to where the snake or alligator is. The chimps also showed agitation before getting to the sight where the snake or alligator was. They were agitated as soon as the chimps were put in the enclosure where the snake or alligator was hidden. Again showing that the “chosen” chimp had informed the others. These items would be hidden on the grounds and only the “chosen” chimp was shown where the items were. The other chimps were put some where they could not see where the “chosen” chimp was shown. Only through communication could the chimps know where to go.
Sagan shows how chimps are very similar to us by showing their good traits as well as their bad traits. He starts by showing how chimps can love each other and care for each other. Both adults and children play. They play more if food supplies are plentiful. Male chimps will protect both female and children from attacks. But this sweetness can turn on a dime. The male will suddenly get violent if competition for dominance arises. The same male who was playing and being kind to chimp children would suddenly grab an innocent by standing child chimp and slam it to the ground in rage. Chimps pick on the runt of the litter. They will pick on the weak just like humans do. Females are picked on as well. There is no women’s liberation in chimp society. There are still human societies where the female is clearly lesser as much as any chimp society. The male is not the only vicious one. Female some times will steal another chimp’s child kill it and eat it. Chimps will eat their own. Sagan gives an example of a chimp child who is playing with a colubus monkey when an adult chimp just comes by and kills the colubus monkey and everyone starts eating it including the chimp child who moments ago was playing with it. The next statement says it all.
“Those who are moved to mercy eat less and leave fewer off spring. Clearly chimps do not recognize monkeys, or chimps of other groups, or even members of their own group as deserving mercy or other moral considerations” Page 287 “Shadows Of Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan.
Where I live I know people who do not recognize their own children or fellow American. Here chimps are portrayed as “Orks” on “Lord Of The Rings”. In Episode II called “Two Towers” of the “Lord Of The Rings” trilogy the orks want fresh meat so they decide that the hobbits might taste good but the Urhukie leader does not let them. One ork got extra aggressive to get meat that the leader killed him. The leader then tells the others that “It looks like meet is back on the menu.”. The orks then all dive in and begin eating a fellow ork who was just killed. When reading about chimps I was surprised to find out just how violent and heartless they were.
Sagan ends the chapter with how chimps go on patrols to guard their turf. This Sagan got from Jane Goodall’s notes. The chimps showed amazing ability to keep silent the whole time unlike their usual behavior. They also showed tracking skills, like looking at disguarded food wedges, feces, dropped termite tools and whether a sleeping nest is fresh or not. Chimps also know how to walk through forests with out rustling the bushes. Chimps do not do frontal or line combat. Chimps do guerilla tactics. They pick off one or two at a time from the neighboring territory. They continue this tactic until the neighboring chimp group no longer has enough of a force to defend that territory. The males from the other tribe are killed. The females are captured and must serve the winning chimps. Ancient human kings did this practice as well. They had Concubines. Sagan then tells us that being a male chimp is like being in the army. This means that gene selection in chimp societies include military skills. So strength is not the only thing necessary for chimp survival. This chapter ended on an interesting note. Military skills can be inherited.