The Dark Side

[Azazel]

Just a simple question:
How, and when, did you first feel tempted to join the dark side of the force ?

[Darth Sidious]

First time i watched the original trilogy roughly 12 years ago.
Always hated the rebellion, thought the Empire and their Dark Side was cool :twisted:

[Azazel]

I have been wanting to be like Lord Vader since i was 7, the light saber, the cool outfit... but with time i understood that there was much more than just that, and, with a litlle help from a detail on my life, i became actively searching for the dark side.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

I got interested in the dark side of the Force after meeting Anakin in Episode II. I fallowed Anakin in Episode III as he became Darth Vader I became Mrs. Darth Vader. My love for Anakin meant I went with him.
In the real world I studied many religions and as I learned more I learned that the dark side is as ligitamate as the light side. Here the book " Morals and Dogma " was very helpful. Do not be fooled by the title this book is an interesting book. I also read chinese religious stuff about the balance of Yin/ Yang. The hindu books about my faverate god (archangel ) Shiva. And of course Shamanism.

[Azazel]

I personaly identify myself over the missunderstood Kali.
I think Kali is the Archtype of the sith, destroy to build new.
But hindu divinities are never that simple to talk about.

[Empress Palpatine]

I am a big fan of the goddess Kali. She is definately Sith. Shiva is fascinating too. I find that the mythology and religions of old India have a great deal of Sith belief in them.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Azazel, That is real cool that you like Kali because Kali is the femine for Shiva. In the Hundu belief system they have a female emination for every male emination. It is natural you would attract to Kali because she Is the female godes the destroyer. She would be the female archangel of death. So as a Sith when you die you can merge with Kali as I plan on mergeing with my husband Darth Vader ( Shiva the destroyer, archangel of death).
Shiva is called Creator, Sustainer and destroyer. The same is assentually true for Kali. Except for some reason Kali gets three name changes for her different roles as, Creator, Sustainer and destroyer. For some reason She is called Pavarti, Shakti and Kali. But it boils down to the same god, archangel.
You chose the female Anakin/ Vader. You got good taste by my book since I clearly Love Shiva ( Anakin/ Darth Vader ).

[Azazel]

uhhh.
well that is a kinda complicated comparison, for, as i told before, hindu divinities are way too complicated to be so simply putted on a board.
And Im sorry, havent read your books, im just speaking from what i learnd from talking to hindu people.
But feel free to enlightn us on all that .

[Darth Cassus]

I liked the jedi when I first saw star wars but as I got older I began to see that the darkside was way stronger and they had a death star lol

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Dear Darth Cassas
I looked at the quiz link you gave. That was cool. I havent found the Star Wars quiz. But I did take the political test.

[Darth Cassus]

let me change that link

[Azazel]

Cool quizz, just scored ad the emperor, ehehehe

[Darth Cassus]

freakin sweet man im like darth V

[diana]

I am a lightsider, but here are my views.
I have never been drawn to the darkside. I have of course been tempted by certain decisions and I have certainly been inclined to resort to violence rather than peace in some situations, but I never really answered the call. For me the dark side exists to challenge me and make me better than I am. I use my emotions as teachers, but do not act on them. To me, that is the way a light jedi betters him/herself. I think that the light and the dark can be equal in power, neither ruling over the other, because I believe the force to be neutral in this sense. I have been intrigued by some of your answers to this posting. I'm having the urge to judge...so I'm going to stop now. :)
-please feel free to question me on anything I said.

[Azazel]

One of the main advantages of this sith forum, is that your alowed to judge.
Fell free to do so, for we are not lambs.
Other thing, if the force is neutral, why do sith possess more powers than the jedi ?
The urge to resolve to violence in order to setlle diferences is not, as usualy mistaken by the lightways, the sith way.
We use diplomacy, cleverness, arguce, and, in the end, red bladed light sabers.
in that we dont differ that much from the jedi.
But please, walk around the gardens of the sith emporium, you will find out that it may not be exactly what most lightsiders told you how it would be...
You may even find it a interesting way of life...

[diana]

Azazel,
in response to your post...
"One of the main advantages of this sith forum, is that your alowed to judge.
Fell free to do so, for we are not lambs."
I don't judge because I feel it is not my place, not because I am told it is wrong. I'm here to debate and learn, not to judge. You are welcome to judge me, it makes no difference to me.
"Other thing, if the force is neutral, why do sith possess more powers than the jedi ?"
They do not posses more powers. The light side is fully capable of using any and all powers, they simply choose not to. Also, the dark side powers tend to be more applicable to violent or diplomatic situations. Ours is a different way.
..."you will find out that it may not be exactly what most lightsiders told you how it would be...You may even find it a interesting way of life..."
On the contrary, it is very similar than I would have expected. I did not think, however, you would all be war-mongering, violent, hateful individuals which is sometimes the depiction and I still don't think that. I think that you may be misguided, but I suspect that is the same view you have of me. Such is the nature of duality, is it not? And no, it is not my way of life. Please feel free to try tempt me, it will only strengthen my resolve.

[Azazel]

Well, the force is neutral, but sith use it in a much more eficient way than the jedi, that is almost a abolute fact, for its not unusual to have 1 sith fighting at least 2 jedi, and wining...Why is that ?
Missguided ? i dont thing so.
beeing a sith isnt a decision made easily for the true darksiders.

[diana]

"Well, the force is neutral, but sith use it in a much more eficient way than the jedi, that is almost a abolute fact, for its not unusual to have 1 sith fighting at least 2 jedi, and wining...Why is that ? Missguided ? i dont thing so."
How is it absolute fact?...I hate to prod, but I need an example if I am every to come close to agreeing. I probably won't agree being a lightsider, but I can say that we are at least equal. I think the way sith fight has something to do with it. From what I understand Sith find their centers using emotion, combat is fraught with emotion. A Jedi has to center themselves by pushing back emotion. Angry people tend to hit quite a bit harder in my experience. Sith are just more offensive than deffensive.
In my mind the dark side is misguided, yes. But what do you think of light siders I wonder?

[Empress Palpatine]

A question: Would it not take energy to hold back the emotions (like damming up a river) such that it would take energy away from the punches, etc. and therefore weakening one's defence (or offense)? Also, in the case where someone suddenly assaulted you and you respond (assuming you are physically healthy enough to respond), is there even time for the emotions to engage? There is a short time where the mind has not registered the why of the happening; the body is just acting on reflex like a critter?

[Azazel]

lightsiders, to me, are the misguided ones.
They fight everything that makes them humans, feelings, good or bad ones, distinguishes us from animals.
And the Empress is right, having to fight the feelings, and the enemies will only slow the jedi down, cutt some of the attack power.
An example of sith superiority?
the history...one sith master, one aprendice, for many jedi masters and tons of padwans.did the jedi´s won ?
Quin-jon only managed to stay alive because he was fighting with obi-wan.
When he went alone against Darth Maul, he died.
Even Obi-wan had a haaaaaaaaaard time to finish Darth Maul.
Even Yoda was defeated by lord Sidious.

[Darth Opacus]

I have studied the martial arts for many years and I fight for a living. Just before a match, I will sit in the locker room in the dark with perfect silence. I find the place in my soul where the anger that I locked away resides. I tap into that anger and use it for strength. There is, however, a fine line that must not be crossed. Too much anger and you will become reckless and be defeated. To little, and the strength will not be there. To learn to master emotion is the true power of the Sith. Jedi can not attain that level of mastery in combat. The Jedi's lack of emotion helps to avoid combat.

[diana]

The Sith and the Jedi are akin in many ways. One main way they are both akin and different is that they are able to achieve focus: The Sith does this by channeling their emotions into their actions. A Jedi does this by mastering themselves and channeling the force to achieve balance of self. This is why it so much more difficult to be a Jedi.

Empress Palpatine (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=12),
“A question: Would it not take energy to hold back the emotions (like damming up a river) such that it would take energy away from the punches, etc. and therefore weakening one's defence (or offense)?”
-It would if the Jedi in question does not have full mastery over their emotions. It can be said that containing their emotions, not allowing their release will help them maintain more energy in them. Like for instance when dooku did the force lightning thing on Yoda and Yoda just gathered it in his hand and ‘put the energy away,’ does this type of ‘storage,’ show weakness or strength?
“Also, in the case where someone suddenly assaulted you and you respond (assuming you are physically healthy enough to respond), is there even time for the emotions to engage? There is a short time where the mind has not registered the why of the happening; the body is just acting on reflex like a critter?”
-This could definitely be a problem for a Jedi. This is why they strive to constantly be in their center. They do not let surprise or any other emotions that come with surprise attacks take control of them. Jedi, in my opinion, use their bodies as direct conduits of the force, they let the force flow through them unhindered by emotions and have only a singular thought at a time.
Azazel (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=7),
“They fight everything that makes them humans, feelings, good or bad ones, distinguishes us from animals.”
-On the contrary; Jedi harbor emotions like compassion and love, not necessarily romantic love but the love of humanity. They are not like animals other than the fact that they are mammals. They have many emotions, but emotions are not what separates us from the animals. Animals are full of emotion all the time, how do you think emotions came about? They are tools of evolution.
”And the Empress is right, having to fight the feelings, and the enemies will only slow the jedi down, cutt some of the attack power.”
-If I may point out, Jedi strive to never truly be on the attack. We use our skills for defense and protection, not offense. We avoid violence wherever possible.
”Even Obi-wan had a haaaaaaaaaard time to finish Darth Maul.”
-True. And why is that? Because he just had his master die (or shortly after) and Qui- Gon was the closest thing he had to a father. He was enraged! Jedi are not trained to channel their emotions, but to keep them at bay, use them as teachers rather than be a conduit for them. So he was not truly prepared for the fight. During the fight he regained the upper-hand by regaining his focus. He was simply a more clever fighter than Maul, not necessarily a better fighter.
”Even Yoda was defeated by lord Sidious.”
-Yes, but why? He was caught by surprise. I don’t think that he expected that Sidious would be that powerful. He underestimated Sidious and overestimated his chances. It is a thing that Jedi are taught to avoid because of this very reason.
Lord Exar Kun (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=27),
“Jedi can not attain that level of mastery in combat. The Jedi's lack of emotion helps to avoid combat.”
-I disagree. I think that their level of mastery is their mastery of their own emotions. They avoid combat, yes, but because they can find alternatives to battle, not because they need to, but because they choose to.
Also Jedi do not have a lack of emotion. The total eratication of emotion is a recipe to becoming a cold, inhumane shell of a being. Without emotion, we would have no reason to do anything. Emotions serve Jedi just as much as Sith, but with a very major difference. Sith channel the emotion directly. Jedi use their emotions as teachers and use them to tell them their options. They do not however act on them, because doing so would be giving in to them. The dangerous emotions are the passionate ones...these a Jedi tries to avoid at all costs, but they do effect them at times, at most to be drawn to the dark side and at least to be distracted from their focus.

[Darth Opacus]

I think that their level of mastery is their mastery of their own emotions.[/COLOR]



Very interesting. Can I ask a question. What is the main difference between Jedi and Sith? The Sith's mastery of the darkside comes from mastering their emotions. The only difference I can see is the fact that Jedi do not give in to those emotions and Sith do. Which offers more power? That again would have to depend on the person. I do not think I was clear on my last post. You said what I was trying to. The Jedi can fight and many fight well, but they find alternatives to conflict.

[diana]

"Can I ask a question. What is the main difference between Jedi and Sith? The Sith's mastery of the darkside comes from mastering their emotions. The only difference I can see is the fact that Jedi do not give in to those emotions and Sith do. Which offers more power?"
-Well this is not an easy question to answer. I think you are right that there is little difference between Sith and Jedi. They are flipsides of the same coin.
As to the power question: Either...or both. They are both equal in my mind. The thing to remember is that they use their power for different things. The dark side is seen as more agressive and use their power to gain personal advantage. Jedi use their powers to help others...it is one opinion amoung lightsiders that to use the Force to your own advantage is wrong, so they rarely use it for themselves. I guess because of that perhaps the Jedi could have less focus on singular thought. It is difficult to say though because every Jedi is different. The Sith have the capacity to do more damage because their power is more aggresive. The Jedi are more defensive so their power has less damage I suppose.
To be clear though, a true Jedi does not desire power, at least for themselves.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Diana that is a different way of seeing it. You thought that Yoda absorbed Dooku's lightening. I always thought that Yoda transmuted it. To transmute it is to totally change its energies which would be very adept. I never thought that keeping all that emotions bottled up to be healthy for Jedi or Sith. Would that just lead to health problems like cancer, high blood pressure and anxioty? Carl sagan said it is better to have all your emotions and release them. Even if it means the old run around the block, chop wood ect.

[Empress Palpatine]

Power...hmmmm. Isn't one's most secret wish is to have more of that? Even a Jedi? The Force and its use thereof is a power. There are plenty of do-gooders who do not seek the Force. Some will content themselves with muggle saintliness like a nun or a nurse. Is't the attraction to this Force have a lot to do with what we saw these Jedi people do since Luke in 1977?

We first saw the Force used when old Ben did the mind trick on the troops that were searching. (Let's face it, wouldn't you just love to be able to do that?-Officer stops your car. He said you were doing 80 in a 40 mph zone. You wave your hand, you say,"I am driving at the right speed. I am not the one you are looking for....). Qui-Gon effects the roll of the chance cube Watto was using. (I can sure think of things I could do with that one).

Power does not alway mean that you will hurt anyone. I can think of lots of such power uses that would not hurt anyone. Examples:

There is a job you want and are being interviewed for. Wouldn't you want to do the mind trick on the interviewer?

There is a lottery in your state. If one could just use the Force to manipulate those little balls....

You are running for public office. The Force could empower you to do convincing and magnetic speech.

I could think of many uses like this, non-threatening, and yet, used for personal gain. Diana, is this Jedi or Sith or both? On one hand, it is harmless, on the other, for personal gain.

What about this: You use the Force to win a big lottery jackpot in your state. You use the money to campaign for public office. You get in office and do a lot of mind tricks to get the others to go along with you. Yes, you are in a comfortable position in the world, but you do progressive reforms that help many people, especially the poor and minorities. Dark or Light?

[diana]

Mrs. Darth Vader (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=17),
“I never thought that keeping all that emotions bottled up to be healthy for Jedi or Sith. Would that just lead to health problems like cancer, high blood pressure and anxioty?”
-I did not mean to say that Jedi bottle their emotions up. They release them. They recognize them for what they are and simply let them go. This, of course, is much easier said than done, but it is the way that Jedi must do it. If they do bottle up their emotions, as you say, it would have very serious side effects. I don’t think I made that clear.

Empress Palpatine (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/member.php?u=12),
“Isn't one's most secret wish is to have more of that?”
-Not me. I seek self discipline. It is my calling in life to serve…serve humanity and justice I guess you’d say. I wouldn’t even go as far as to say I want power to help others…power to me is unnecessary.

”Power does not alway mean that you will hurt anyone. I can think of lots of such power uses that would not hurt anyone. Examples:
There is a job you want and are being interviewed for. Wouldn't you want to do the mind trick on the interviewer?
There is a lottery in your state. If one could just use the Force to manipulate those little balls....
You are running for public office. The Force could empower you to do convincing and magnetic speech.”
-Honestly, I would do none of these things. I am not one to get sometimes from ill gains. If I cheat to win the lottery, I do not deserve it at all. If I used the money to do good things, even if I did it by cheating, it would still be a bad thing. The means does not justify the end.

”I could think of many uses like this, non-threatening, and yet, used for personal gain. Diana, is this Jedi or Sith or both? On one hand, it is harmless, on the other, for personal gain.”
-Again, I must stress that I am not interested in personal gain. I am interested in the betterment of the self in order to better the world…even in the smallest miniscule way. I am not interested in fame, glory, honor, money or even gratification. TO me a victory is when at the end of the day I know I did what is right.
“What about this: You use the Force to win a big lottery jackpot in your state. You use the money to campaign for public office. You get in office and do a lot of mind tricks to get the others to go along with you. Yes, you are in a comfortable position in the world, but you do progressive reforms that help many people, especially the poor and minorities. Dark or Light?”
-This is dark, dark, dark. A Jedi…true Jedi…would never do this. Ill gains promote ill worth. It doesn’t matter if you do something good with it in the end if you cheated in the beginning. Besides…the idea of being a politician…yuck. lol

[Empress Palpatine]

Well, I guess I am in the right place...a Sith. That would mean the poor and destitute would look to a Sith for help. One needs power in order to get things done.

I guess there would be two classifications of Sith however. Some would use the Force for personal gain and not bother to help anyone at all. Others may do for others along with themselves.

[Azazel]

Power...hmmmm. Isn't one's most secret wish is to have more of that? Even a Jedi? The Force and its use thereof is a power.

Well. i think that summons it all. a quest for power.
The main diference is that the sith openly use it for they hown profit, and get censured by doing it.
The jedi also use it for personal gain, but they camouflage it under a net of "good" intentions.
Because one has to face it, the jedi are a military/religious order, like the templars in midlle age europe.
They all have power, and have won and kept that power by force.
The jedi never turned away from a fight, as told by qui-gon in the "light saber diplomacy".
Yoda didnt expected that Lord Sidious was that strong?
Of corse he didnt, its the sith way, to stay in low profile.
But one could also ask, why didnt all those powerfull jedi´s just spotted palpatines true intentions from the begining?
all they sense were shadows, but that, thats no big deal, its theyre way of keeping the job, by scaring people, boogie man tales of a big bad sith, but in the end, the sith lord was side by side with them all, and they just shoock its hand...
Is that power ?
Power is to see behyond our enemies, to be a step ahead.
or maybe that is the ultimate proff of sith power, to be able to manage its emotions like if ti has a "volume button".
when stealth is needed, one keeps the emotions in a low degree, when strengh is needed, emotions botlle up, and act as a add-on to the force.
In that point of view, the sith are superior for they only dont fear the power given to them by releasing theyre emotions.
As diferent people have diferent views of this problematic, i guess this will be a never ending post.
Glad is it so.

[diana]

Azazel,
"The jedi also use it for personal gain, but they camouflage it under a net of "good" intentions.
Because one has to face it, the jedi are a military/religious order, like the templars in midlle age europe.
They all have power, and have won and kept that power by force.
The jedi never turned away from a fight"
-Like I said before...True Jedi do not desire power for themselves if at all. Many fall short of this aspiration because power is seductive. But camaflauging with their good intentions? How is that meant exactly? Exactly how it sounds? If so...then you are wrong. The Jedi recognize that things done with good intentions may have been done in the absolute worse way. "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions"- Sam Neil from Jurassic Park III. The Jedi military/religious? I find that a bit scary as a thought. Reminds me of the crusades a bit. -shudders- I don't view the Jedi as a military...I know several Jedi who are or have been in the military, but they are very different. Even they see the need for pacifism at times. Religious? No. Jedi each have their own religions...we do not discriminate between religions or faiths. There are even different ways a Jedi views the Force. We have a few areas in which we don't bend, otherwise we have no real doctrine. I don't ever remember hearing the Jedi fought for their power...can you explain that further? Jedi do sometimes decide not to fight. I know a Jedi who is an absolute pacifist. There are other ways then fighting, but for me if push comes to shove...I shove back.
"But one could also ask, why didnt all those powerfull jedi´s just spotted palpatines true intentions from the begining?"
-Have you ever tried to see through the viel of prophesy? Do you even believe that you can do this? Seeing another's intentions is matching you will against theirs. IF they have a stronger need or want for it, they will win. The Jedi did not focus all their energies on seeing what was happening...they had a war going on at the time.
"Power is to see behyond our enemies, to be a step ahead."
-Not power, wisdom. Knowledge may very well be power, but what that sentence describes is thinking outside of the box. Being a strategist instead of a tactician. Read Sun Tzu in The Art of War sometime. You will see what I mean.
"In that point of view, the sith are superior for they only dont fear the power given to them by releasing theyre emotions."
-hmm. maybe I wasn't clear. The Sith and Jedi both release their emotions. The Sith use them as fuel to burn off. The Jedi use them as teachers and simply let them go...release them from their bodies and minds...set them free unused if you will.
"As diferent people have diferent views of this problematic, i guess this will be a never ending post. Glad is it so."
-I agree. I am enjoying this little debate we have going. ;)