The Sith, a direct fictional parallel to LaVey Satanism?

[Magister Bacon]

I am currently beginning to codify something I am calling Sith Satanism with writing a book called The Satanic Sith. I think a lot of modern Sith societies dwell too much on fictional metaphor and do not realize the potential, or the role they play in society.

It occured to me on Monday that Satanism, as it was taught by Anton LaVey, could be a direct parallel to the Sith, as they are the best symbolic portrayal of the Left Hand Path in fiction. I was wondering as to what your thoughts were on this.

[Darth Devious]

I have been saying this for a long time. Check out my posts. Welcome to Sithnet.

[Magister Bacon]

I have been saying this for a long time. Check out my posts. Welcome to Sithnet.

Excellent, and thanks for the welcome.

In what threads imparticular do you make this analogy?

I have actually been using a lightsaber in ritual, in preparation for what I'm about to do.

[Empress Palpatine]

Not everyone on a Sith site claims Satanism, so I do not see how there can be a direct parallel. However, I think there are comparisons, even similarities. To know exactly how much they compare will take time and study. In fact I am going through the Satanic Bible myself right now on Sithism.com. I am doing the Tarot on Force Followers United.

Perhaps some such discussion can happen here as well (without duplicating the other site).

I see Sith like the Freemasons, a combination of many belief systems. I do want Sith to keep that multifaceted aspect. To lose this and become an exact carbon copy of an existing beief system would be a step backward. Today's time needs fresh ideas. We can still study and learn from the past though.

[Azazel]

Well, i have mixed feeling towards that direct paralel...
I was once a left hand path "admirer" and i almost made my my way into

But nowadays, and despite the fact that i admit that there are more things biding us togheder that separating us, i bekieve that the two are quite diferent.
A sith is a gnostic person, no rituals, no "must do that" dogmas.
But i guess its a way of seeing things.
When you finnish your book, let us give a look, and maybe we can make a better opinion.
And, welcome to the forum.

[Darth Sidious]

Sounds like it would be interesting to read your finished work on this, although i dont necessarily agree with the link/correlation.

please keep us informed

[Alena]

I am currently beginning to codify something I am calling Sith Satanism with writing a book called The Satanic Sith. I think a lot of modern Sith societies dwell too much on fictional metaphor and do not realize the potential, or the role they play in society.

It occured to me on Monday that Satanism, as it was taught by Anton LaVey, could be a direct parallel to the Sith, as they are the best symbolic portrayal of the Left Hand Path in fiction. I was wondering as to what your thoughts were on this.

I can see this.

FWIW, I'm a student and practitioner of ceremonial magick, and have been involved with both the Golden Dawn and Thelema. Based on my religion, spiritual paths and esoteric leanings I frequently describe myself as "ambidextrous" versus RHP or LHP. I can go into great detail on how the entire concepts are completely negated and are two parts of the same whole if you like. :)


~Alena

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Like Empress Palpatine I want to keep the Sith as uniquely Sith with its many differant views. This does not mean that a Satanist can not be a Sith. A Satanist is welcome as any other form of Sith. Since I have descovered that if there is ten Sith in a room there will be ten differant opinions as to what a Sith is. I have my own beliefs as to what a Sith is. And I for one think it always linked with Star Wars. I hate kicking out the founding father of Sith or Jedi meaning George Lucas. I do not believe if you call your self say christian well if you kick out Jesus than you are no longer christian but something else. The same is true for Sith or Jedi kick out Star Wars, than you are something else. The movies are interlinked with the philosophy. This does not mean that you can not learn from other sources of information like from the ancients.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

I can see this.

FWIW, I'm a student and practitioner of ceremonial magick, and have been involved with both the Golden Dawn and Thelema. Based on my religion, spiritual paths and esoteric leanings I frequently describe myself as "ambidextrous" versus RHP or LHP. I can go into great detail on how the entire concepts are completely negated and are two parts of the same whole if you like. :)


~Alena Sounds like you are experianced in magic. Golden Dawn is that light side Wicca? I ask because I read this Book called " Nocturnal Witchcraft" and " Gothic Grimiore" by Konstantinos and he says that Golden Dawn uses day time energies were as he told you about night time energies. Just thought I would ask. What is Thelema about? I could always learn more. If you will teach.

[Seti-I-Shadim]

LOL Mrs. Darth Vader-If you only knew what an enormous set of questions you just asked Alena.:D Let's put it this way, you might want to relax, have a seat, & order a pizza. This might take her a little time. ROFL. Sorry I'm in a mischievous mood:palp:

Seti

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Thank you Seti I Shadim. Your mischeavious mood is ok. If you know the answer it is ok if you answer. Do I still need to order pizza while I a wait your answer? May be you would rather come and eat the pizza with me and talk over pizza. I really like that Darkness is one think. I find myself relooking at it. And I still love your spell. Thanks.

[Seti-I-Shadim]

Thank you Seti I Shadim. Your mischeavious mood is ok. If you know the answer it is ok if you answer. Do I still need to order pizza while I a wait your answer? May be you would rather come and eat the pizza with me and talk over pizza. I really like that Darkness is one think. I find myself relooking at it. And I still love your spell. Thanks.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Sun in 14° : Moon in 16° : Anno IVxiv

Okay...heres a few basics on the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, then Thelema. Keep in mind they are basics.

The original "Order of the Golden Dawn" was a magical fraternity founded in London in 1887 by Dr. William Wynn Westcott, a London physician and municipal coroner. His partners were another physician, Dr. William R. Woodman, and Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers. All three men were Freemasons. (However, sometime after becoming a member of the Golden Dawn, S.L. Macgregor Mathers became inactive in Freemasonry.) Dr. Woodman was the head of a reputable Rosicrucian fellowship made up of well respected, high ranking Masons in London. The three founders were also members of the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia (S.R.I.A.), an exclusive lodge founded by the noted Grand Lodge Freemason Kenneth MacKenzie, author of The Royal Masonic Encyclopedia. The S.R.I.A. was established in 1866 with Lord Bulwer-Lytton as honorary patron. Important members included Frederick Hockley, who collected esoteric writing and engaged in practical experimentation; he is reliably known to have been taught by a pupil of Francis Barrett, and was a teacher of Kenneth MacKenzie. The Christian spiritualist leader Rev. William Stainton Moses was also a member of the S.R.I.A.

Westcott, also a member of the Theosophical Society, seems to have been the initial driving force behind the establishment of the Golden Dawn. Woodman, as Supreme Magus of the S.R.I.A., was undoubtedly recruited to lend credibility to the new organization. Mathers was an antiquarian, translator, researcher and had a great talent for composing ritual works and integrating occult symbolism. In addition, Mathers insisted on women being allowed to participate in the Order in "perfect equality" with men. This was a marked change from the men-only tradition of Masonry. And unlike the S.R.I.A., which required its members to be Christian, the Golden Dawn was open to any man or woman who professed "belief in a Supreme Being or Beings".

The Cipher Manuscripts
According to its founders, the Golden Dawn was based on a charter from a supposedly ancient German Rosicrucian Lodge, which had written a coded record of their secret occult rituals into a document dubbed the Cipher Manuscripts. Westcott claimed to have acquired these mysterious manuscripts in 1886, from the effects of Reverend A. F. A. Woodford, an elderly Masonic scholar. Copies of these records were subsequently discovered by Westcott among assorted papers of the Swedenborgian Rite that MacKenzie had left to Woodford after his death in 1886, which were turned over by Woodford's widow to Westcott, in his capacity as an Officer of the S.R.I.A..

According to Westcott, the Cipher Manuscripts also contained an address of an aged adept named "Fräulein Sprengel" in Germany, to whom Westcott wrote inquiring about the contents of the papers. Fraulein Sprengel responded, and after accepting the requests of Westcott and Mathers, issued them a charter to operate a Lodge of the Order in England. Westcott's first Golden Dawn Temple was the Isis-Urania Lodge, styled "No.3". Temple No.1 would have been Fraulein Sprengel's lodge, and No. 2 was supposedly an abortive attempt at a lodge by some unnamed persons in London, (possibly a reference to MacKenzie and other S.R.I.A. members some years earlier.)

The Golden Age of the Golden Dawn
In its heyday, many cultural celebrities belonged to the Golden Dawn, such as actress Florence Farr and Irish revolutionary Maude Gonne. Some well known members included Arthur Machen, William Butler Yeats, and Aleister Crowley. (Bram Stoker is rumored to have once been a member, but it has never been proven.) But many men and women of the 19th century Fin de siècle social culture were members of the Golden Dawn.

The original Lodge founded in 1888 did not teach any magical practices per se (except for basic "banishing" rituals and meditation), but was rather a philosophical and metaphysical teaching Order. This was called "the Outer Order", and for four years the Golden Dawn existed only in "the Outer". The "Inner Order", which became active in 1892, was the circle of Adepts who had completed the entire course of study and Initiations of the Outer Order contained in the Cipher Manuscripts. This group eventually became known as the Second Order (the Outer Order being the "First" Order).

Mathers and Dr. Westcott have been credited for developing the ritual outlines in the Cipher Manuscript into a workable format.[1] Mathers, however, is generally credited with the design of the curriculum and rituals of the Second Order, which he called the Rosae Rubae et Aureae Crucis ("Ruby Rose and Golden Cross", or the RR et AC.) Some Golden Dawn practitioners believe that Mathers received his materials from the "Secret Chiefs" connected to his German Rosicrucian predecessors, which is what he stated to his followers. Some believe that S.L. Macgregor Mathers and his wife Moina channelled the materials, and later refined and developed them, as was done with the Cipher Manuscripts. Mathers' exegesis of the Cipher materials as practiced by the original Temples is known as the "Z-2". The Order tradition is to designate it's important "secret" instructional papers as "Z Documents".

The primary Lodges were the original Isis-Urania Temple in London, the Amen-Ra Temple in Edinburgh, and the Ahathoor Temple in Paris. It is unknown how many members the Order had in its heyday, as some lodges' records were lost or destroyed, but estimates range from three to five hundred. Only a small group, probably well under one hundred, ever became part of the Second Order. There were a few other Temples, consisting of small groups scattered in Europe and America, generally meeting in private homes. Mathers left London in 1894 to live in Paris, and his temple there became the nominal center of the organization, though it was notable chiefly for his presence. Westcott remained in London as Chief Adept in Anglica (England.)

By the end of the nineteenth century, Dr. Woodman had died, and Dr. Westcott had curtailed his participation in official activities after several occult manuscripts of the Order, in a case bearing his address, had been left in a London taxicab and came to the attention of his superiors in the city government. Not wishing any hint of scandal over "secret occult societies" that had officials of the Crown in their ranks (especially a coroner, who could conceivably cover up a suspicious cause of death), Westcott's employers insisted he disassociate himself with the Order. There are accounts of a similar incident in 1889 which caused him to stop lecturing for the Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society. Aleister Crowley later alleged in his autobiography that Mathers deliberately planted the documents to consolidate his control of the Order by forcing Westcott's resignation, as this was rumored at the time. While there is no proof of Mathers's complicity, it appears that the relationship between Mathers and Westcott all but ended after this point. After Westcott's departure, Mathers appointed Florence Farr to be Chief Adept in Anglica. (Although Westcott publicly resigned, he must have continued in some capacity since there are Lodge documents bearing his signature dated years after his "resignation.")

This left Mathers as the only active founding member and in charge of the Order. Due to personality clashes with other members, and being absent from the center of Lodge activity in Great Britain, challenges to Mathers' authority as leader began to develop amongst the members of the Second Order.

The Breakup of the Original Order
After 13 years of operation, a majority of the high-ranking members in London fostered a schism of the British lodges from Mathers in 1900, which led to further schisms and more splinter groups. The original Golden Dawn ceased to exist under that name in 1903 but which continued under at least two spin-off organizations, the Stella Matutina (Morning Star) and the Alpha et Omega, as well as a renamed faction headed by Arthur Edward Waite.

In 1900, Mathers had entered into a disastrous relationship with a husband and wife known as Mr. and Mrs. Theo Horos. This couple had carved out a living for a number of years as "confidence frauds with an occult slant." The Horos' had apparently developed some kind of relationship with one of the American temples and had either acquired or forged some Order papers and credentials. Based on these credentials and their mesmeric personalities, the Horoses were able to con Mathers out of Order documents, which they used to set up spurious "temples" and operate confidence schemes. Word of their illicit operations eventually reached Mathers, who subsequently denounced them as frauds, and they were tried and convicted of fraud and sexual misconduct in 1902.

By 1903 the name "Golden Dawn" was dropped by both Mathers and by the various splinter groups to avoid the growing public scandal. The Stella Matutina closed its doors in the United Kingdom before WWII, but continued to function under the popular name Whare Ra in New Zealand until the late 1970s. Mathers' Alpha et Omega had a few members in America in the early 20th century, but no groups are known to have continued after the death of his wife Moina in 1928.

Philosophy
The primary basis of the Golden Dawn philosophy is an integrated Western Hermeticism, organized into a more or less coherent structure. The Golden Dawn's Hermetic roots came together from the philosophies of the ancient Egyptians and Greeks, with Gnosticism and Neo-Platonism merging in the second and third century; with influence from the Moslem Sufis brought to Europe by Crusader orders; the Qabala — itself influenced by Neo-Platonism - and alchemy, merging in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. The philosophy of the Inner Order, more so than that of the Outer, was also heavily influenced by mystic Christianity and Rosicrucian ideals. By the mid-1800s, the final additions to what we recognize as Western Magic Tradition are complete—the Tarot, Astrology, and Talismanic Magic. To this mix the Golden Dawn added Enochian Magic, a system developed in the late 16th century by Dr. John Dee, astrologer and cartographer to Queen Elizabeth I, and the Hindu meditation system of Tattvas, along with the Tantric principles of the Chakras.

Before the Golden Dawn, attempts to draw the mass of Western tradition together into a coherent system had been flawed, or incomplete. Barrett and Constant (Levi) had both attempted a system that unified Western tradition. But it would be the Golden Dawn which produced a balanced and harmonious system which included all the disparate elements of Western Esotericism.

At its core, the philosophy of the Golden Dawn is one of perfectible humanism; that by use of the esoteric tools and techniques passed down from antiquity, a human being can advance in spiritual knowledge and magical power, and with hard work and discipline, come to control his or her own destiny.

The Grades of the Golden Dawn

First Order:

Introduction—Neophyte 0=0
Zelator 1=10
Theoricus 2=9
Pracitcus 3=8
Philosophus 4=7

Second Order:

Intermediate—Portal Grade
Adeptus Minorus 5=6
Adeptus Majorus 6=5
Adeptus Exemptus 7=4

Third Order:

Magister Templi 8=3
Magus 9=2
Ipsissimus 10=1

The paired numbers attached to the Grades relate to positions on the Tree of Life. The Neophyte Grade of "0=0" indicates no position on the Tree. For the others, the first numeral is the number of steps up from the bottom (Malkuth), and the second numeral is the number of steps down from the top (Kether).

The First Order Grades are related to the four Classical Elements of Earth, Air, Water and Fire, respectively. The Aspirant to a Grade receives instruction on the metaphysical meaning of each of these Elements, and must pass a written examination and demonstrate certain skills to receive Admission to that Grade.

The Portal Grade is the initiation for admittance to the Second Order. In most Lodges, the Circle of existing Adepts must consent to allow an Aspirant to join the Second Order.

The Second Order is not, properly, part of the "Golden Dawn", but a separate Order in its own right, known as the R.R. et A.C. The Second Order directed the teachings of the First Order, and was the governing force behind the First Order.

After passing the Portal, the Aspirant begins to be instructed in the techniques of practical Magic. When another examination is passed, and the other Adepts consent, the Aspirant attains the Grade of Adeptus Minor 5=6. (In the original Order, there were four sub-Grades of instruction for the Adeptus Minor, again relating to the four Outer Order grades.)

A member of the Second Order has the power and authority to initiate aspirants to the First Order, though usually not without the permission of the Chiefs of his or her Lodge.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn

THELEMA

Thelema is the English transliteration of the Ancient Greek noun θέλημα: "will", from the verb ἐθέλω: to will, wish, purpose. It was originally a philosophy of life inspired by Francois Rabelais (16th century) based on his famous books, Gargantua and Pantagruel. Aleister Crowley (1875–1947) took Thelema as the name of his philosophical, mystical, and religious system, which was inspired by occultism, Yoga, both Eastern and Western mysticism (especially the Kabbalah), as well as the ideas of Rabelais.



Crowleyan Thelema
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Aleister Crowley (1875–1947), scribe of Liber LegisIn 1904, Aleister Crowley (1875–1947) — an English occultist, writer, and social provocateur—wrote The Book of the Law, which was to serve as the foundation of the religious and philosphical system he called Thelema. The Law of Thelema is summed up in these phrases from the Book:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" (AL I:40)
"Love is the law, love under will" (AL I:57)
"There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt" (AL III:60)
Crowley wrote that the Law is not a license to indulge in casual whim or to mindlessly accept cultural mores, but is rather a mandate to discover and manifest one's True Will, which he described as one's inner divine nature, spiritual destiny, or proper course in life.

The Book of the Law

Crowley's system of Thelema begins with The Book of the Law, which has the technical name Liber AL vel Legis. It was written in Cairo, Egypt while on his honeymoon with his new wife Rose Crowley. This small book contains three chapters, each of which was written down in one hour, beginning at noon, on April 8, April 9, and April 10. Crowley claims that the author was an entity named Aiwass, whom he later identified as his own Holy Guardian Angel. Several years later, Crowley added a short section at the end called "The Comment", which warns against the "study" of the Book and "discussing" its contents, and states that all "questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal" to Crowley's writings.

True Will

According to Crowley, the discovery and manifestion of one's unique True Will is the central task of every Thelemite. True Will is an idea that could be described in its dynamic aspect as the singular path of possible action that encounters no resistance in going because it is supported by the inertia of the whole Universe; theoretically, no two True Wills can contradict each other because each one has its own absolutely unique career in its passage through Infinite Space. Hence, to follow one's True Will means to respect all True Wills, described as "Love is the law, love under will". The apparent pacifism of this doctrine is complicated, however, by the possibility that the majority of beings do not know their True Will.

Crowley referred to the process of discovering the Will as the Great Work, the basis of which is Love or Union with the All (similar in vein to the mystical aspects of Buddhism and Hinduism). The term Magick is applied to the general set of techniques used to accomplish the Great Work, which usually includes practices based on Yoga, the Qabalah, Hermeticism, and ceremonial ritual. According to Crowley, the two great milestones in this process are attaining the Knowledge and Conversation of one's Holy Guardian Angel (which Crowley described as a person's "secret self") and then crossing the Abyss, a mystical process where the individual ego is "annihilated" (symbolized by the spilling of the blood into the Graal of Babalon) and the adept achieves union with the All by entering the City of the Pyramids. After this, the "Master of the Temple" may either remain there, move on to higher states, or return to every-day life to fulfill some earthly destiny. (See also: Thelemic mysticism)

Cosmology
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The Stele of Revealing, depicting Nuit, Hadit as the winged globe, Horus seated on his throne, and the creator, Ankh-af-na-khonsuThe Book of the Law establishes a triadic cosmology – derived from ancient Egypt – each appearing in one of its three chapters. The first is Nuit, the infinitely-expanded Goddess of the Night Sky, the Queen of Space; Hadit, the infinitely-condensed Point, the hidden Flame in the being of all that lives; and Ra-Hoor-Khuit or Horus, the Hawk-Headed sun god, the Crowned and Conquering Child. Other divinities that exist within Thelema are:

Babalon—the Scarlet Woman, the Mother of Abominations, the Holy *****
Chaos—the universal generative drive
Baphomet—the Serpent and the Lion, creative energy materialised
Aiwass—the being that, according to Crowley, dictated Liber Legis
Ankh-af-an-khonsu—an actual Priest who lived in Thebes during the late XXVth dynasty of ancient Egypt, around 725 b.c.e.
Crowley himself admitted that The Book of the Law had many elements that were beyond his own comprehension.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/Seti-I-Shadim/23/gesture2.gif

Practices
Although there are communal ceremonies informed by Thelema and organizations to support them (see Thelemic organizations), Thelemic practice is a mainly individual affair. Generally, most practices are designed to assist the Thelemite in finding and manifesting True Will, although some include celebratory aspects as well.

Observances
Crowley wrote many rituals and discussed numerous spiritual practices that he considered central to the Thelemic experience. These include:

Liber Resh—consisting of four daily adorations to the sun
The purification, consecration and exaltation of one's Body of Light by the use of rituals of invocation (e.g. the Ritual of the Pentagram)
Eucharistic celebrations, such as The Gnostic Mass or the Mass of the Phoenix
Development in Yoga
Keeping a magical record
"Saying Will" before the main meal of the day (a simple set of statements—sometimes presented as a dialog with others—declaring that it is the individual's will to eat and drink, in order to fortify his body, in order to accomplish the Great Work.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema
http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/index.phtml



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[Empress Palpatine]

Wow, that's a lot to chew on. I'll have to set aside an afternoon.

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

I took my first gander and I can see this will take some time to digest. This is complicated. Now I see why you said order a pizza and it will take a while. Thank you for answering. I will have to read this several times to do it justice.

[Alena]

Sounds like you are experianced in magic. Golden Dawn is that light side Wicca? I ask because I read this Book called " Nocturnal Witchcraft" and " Gothic Grimiore" by Konstantinos and he says that Golden Dawn uses day time energies were as he told you about night time energies. Just thought I would ask. What is Thelema about? I could always learn more. If you will teach.

Golden Dawn isn't Wicca. Wicca did get a lot of its ceremonial materials from the Golden Dawn and Thelema, however, but the Golden Dawn itself predates Wicca. It has an extremely strong solar influence, while Wicca is far more lunar.

Thelema...ask anyone and you'll get five million definitions. I will quote Crowley and then I will use my own words. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, love under will." In my own words, Thelema is about following your true will.

You would like the Book of the Law, I think, especially the third chapter. A lot of people can't deal with the third chapter nor understand what it has to say, but I think many people here could.


~Alena

[Alena]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Sun in 14° : Moon in 16° : Anno IVxiv

Okay...heres a few basics on the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, then Thelema. Keep in mind they are basics.



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Gods, you're awesome. First Plato, now this! I don't run into too many people in the Jedi community who have both read ancient Greek philosophers AND know about the Golden Dawn and Thelema. Or did you just simply go to the Wikipedia to get the information but not know anything about it? Either way... this Greek and occult geek is extremely impressed.


~Alena

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Seti I Shadim I finaly got to read the whole thing. WoW! That is highly intelectual. But thank you for putting it there so I could have an idea. Sounds like a lot of occultic orders end in the same way, a lot of in fighting. It is too bad these smart people have trouble getting along. No wonder a lot of wisdom gets lost. May be some day an intelectual will arise who can unite both the masses and other intelectuals. Alena I was not trying to insult Golden Dawn by putting it with Wicca. That is how this author put it so I had no reason to argue since he knew better than I on that particular subject. Konstantinos sounded like Wicca is more day time orentated and he was into Nocturnal " Wicca" witchcraft. He did admit that he preferd the generic term witchcraft as opposed to Wicca. Of course you would think his stuff too Sith.

[Alena]

Alena I was not trying to insult Golden Dawn by putting it with Wicca. That is how this author put it so I had no reason to argue since he knew better than I on that particular subject. Konstantinos sounded like Wicca is more day time orentated and he was into Nocturnal " Wicca" witchcraft. He did admit that he preferd the generic term witchcraft as opposed to Wicca. Of course you would think his stuff too Sith.

Oh no, I knew that you didn't mean to be insulting nor did I take it as such. I only seek to clarify what a lot of people don't understand about Wicca.

Witchcraft is indeed a generic term, but not all witchcraft is Wicca. Wicca is a specific religion which employs a particular tradition of witchcraft.

I practice withcraft myself, but not of the Wiccan variety.


~Alena

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Thank you for clarifying because I thought you were pokeing me so I got real angry in an instant. Luckly i do not have the "Skunking" mechinism of Empress Palpatine Psychically speaking.

[Empress Palpatine]

Who me?

It would seem that if I am very emotionally locked on about something (like mad that someone is driving me nuts), something somehow happens to that person. It is not that I actually intentionally do anything. We decided to call it my "skunk." Anybody got one of those? I am sure it is a Sith thing.

I read some about these occult orders, but I tend to mix them up a bit, forget who was who, etc. I do recall that many were in some way tied to Freemasonry.

[Alena]

Thank you for clarifying because I thought you were pokeing me so I got real angry in an instant. Luckly i do not have the "Skunking" mechinism of Empress Palpatine Psychically speaking.

Nah, I like you and I wouldn't poke at you. :) Besides, I'm extremely not subtle about that. If I were poking you I'd undoubtedly get called on by everyone here, including the mod, for flaming.

Redheaded Irish woman. Not. Subtle. LOL



~Alena

[Mrs. Darth Vader]

Red headed and Irish, You must have a temper. Sounds like you should consider being a Sith instead of Shadow Jedi.

[Azazel]

Red haired and Irish...we had a Trayer in this forum that also had that description...and a pagan also...and a shadow as well.

[Alena]

Red haired and Irish...we had a Trayer in this forum that also had that description...and a pagan also...and a shadow as well.

She sounds like someone with whom I'd get along with rather well. :)


~Alena

[Alena]

Red headed and Irish, You must have a temper. Sounds like you should consider being a Sith instead of Shadow Jedi.

I do indeed have a temper, but I rarely lose it. When I do, it feels sorta like a spirit possessing my body. It's not a terribly pleasant experience but it has yielded interesting results, especially if someone tried to engage me in a physical confrontation.

I will say though that I am definitely a very passionate individual. :)


~Alena

[Empress Palpatine]

Oh yeah....I got a lot of Irish in me! I got a temper. It is like a Florida thunderstorm, full of sound and fury, but the clouds clear up quickly and the sun comes out again.

[Azazel]

She sounds like someone with whom I'd get along with rather well. :)


~Alena

I bet you would get along as sisters.
Your into sorcery ?

[Alena]

I bet you would get along as sisters.
Your into sorcery ?

Not sure what you mean by sorcery. I practice ceremonial magick, and I've been studying Goetics and Enochian these days.



~Alena

[Alena]

Oh yeah....I got a lot of Irish in me! I got a temper. It is like a Florida thunderstorm, full of sound and fury, but the clouds clear up quickly and the sun comes out again.

Heheh yup that sounds about right. :D



~Alena

[Omnihilus]

I think that the ONA is a closer parallel. If only because they are goal oriented. Another aspect of the order of nine angles is the apprehension of actual dark forces as they exist within this and other realms of manifestation. Using various ritualized ceremonies coupled with personal growth and experience, they begin to develop exoteric and esoteric abilities.

Also thier awareness of what they term "the acasual realm" is tantamount to thier path, or "the seven fold way". The acasual realm being known in one sense as "the realm of the dark gods" and "the inverse opening of the nexion".

One of the outer duties of this order (which has been present either openly or in cloistered format for quite some time) is to either find, or directly open pathways to the acasual via what they term "nexions" which may then provide access to these dark energies and that which is beyond them. such a working is paramount in what is termed "aeonics" or the changing of civilizations or individuals via new energies consolidated by adepts and thier superiors during a 17 year interval rite known as "the returning", which is an active creation of a nexion.

The opening of nexions serves in one aspect to increase the number of genuine adepts whilst simultaneously formulating the approaching shift to a new aeon.

The Order of Nine Angles recognizes Laveyan satanism as a joke. As do they with the temple of Set, golden Dawn, Ordo templi orientis, I.O.T. among a small number of other unmentioned organizations.


The Golden Dawn suffers from overt convoloution of its own core principles, with some of the only truly VALUABLE rites being the middle pillar ritual and the invocation of the borneless one. Of course those two cremonies are reflected within the order as various forms of ritual or meditative practice and or grades or stations within the order.

The resultant Ordo Templi Orientis, formed by golden dawn head Crowley isn't MUCH better, yet provides a more direct apprehension of golden dawn aim: Summation of being.

However Crowleys own appetite for grandure and self aggrandizement has caused the order to undergo a progressive degradation which now has it hidden from the world practicing rites which none of them understand, bestowing ridiculous titles and grades upon unworthy cohorts and confederates.

Although the various volumes of the EQUINOX, there is INVALUABLE insight to be attained, the overall methodology of the O.T.O. is flawed by the very existence of the order itself which contradicts the existence of Crowleys unearthly A:. A:., by the perpetuation of "self" affirming acts by the heads and neophytes of the tradition.

( THE EQUINOX:a complete set of instructive and or poetic texts perpetuated by the Ordo Templi Orientis in the form of an internal magazine, later some of which became material for the much "acclaimed" "Holy Books of Thelema")


Thelema is outright idolatry and psycophantic delusion.

On a side note; the author "Konstantinos" is notoriously renowned in my mind for his outright plagarism of golden dawn methodology in his "book" "Summoning spirits".

His other books are equally uninspired in my personal opinion (which doesn't have to matter a lick !!)


but anyway. The Orders of the golden dawn and Ordo templi orientis are incredibly elitist and cloistered (personal experience) and have little to no basis in ACTUAL attainment (most of which is "precieved" by others resulting in either the denial or granting of an illusory "title" or "grade".


The O.N.A. has a system of grades as well. However thier attainment depends more on personal attainment than external consensus. As it should be.

Some people just think they're so important!! *laughs his ass off at alot of things...and people*