The Sith, a direct fictional parallel to LaVey Satanism?

[Seti-I-Shadim]

ONA is interesting, in so far as it being an anomaly more than anything else. From its condoning of human sacrifice to its ties to National Socialism, it has done more damage to Satanism than any good. This is not to say that they do not have innumerable volumes of materials which has some good ideas & rites. However, at the same time, they have much that is rather questionable.

Speaking of questionable, I find you are rather quick to condemn Thelema, Crowley, IOT, & The Golden Dawn. It is rather unfortunate that you are so ill-informed on the histories of the organizations & persons you so freely condemn.


The Golden Dawn suffers from overt convoloution of its own core principles, with some of the only truly VALUABLE rites being the middle pillar ritual and the invocation of the borneless one. Of course those two cremonies are reflected within the order as various forms of ritual or meditative practice and or grades or stations within the order.

Could you explain this to me? At first you say they are valuable ceremonies but the HOGD actually uses them. Then you say there are symbolic in relation to the grade system. Which is it?

The resultant Ordo Templi Orientis, formed by golden dawn head Crowley isn't MUCH better, yet provides a more direct apprehension of golden dawn aim: Summation of being.

Here's some facts:

1. OTO was not created by Crowley. In fact, there are branches which do not recognize him as head of the Order at that time.


Origins
Origins of the Order are almost parallel to that of the Golden Dawn, in which both beginnings were mysterious. Its more than likely that the founder was Carl Kellner, a wealthy German iron-founder, in 1895 (although nothing is known of the Order until 1904).[12]
Theodor Reuss succeeded as head of the O.T.O. after Kellner's death. Under Reuss, charters were given to occult brotherhoods in France, Denmark, Switzerland, the U.S.A. and Austria. There were nine degrees, of which the first six were masonic.[12]
Kellner, along with an associate, Theodor Reuss (1855-1923), decided to call it the Oriental Templar Order In 1902, Reuss, along with Franz Hartmann and Henry Klein, purchased the right to perform the Rite of Memphis and Mizraim of Freemasonry (which is considered irregular by most Masonic Grand Lodges and Grand Orients), the authority of which was confirmed in 1904 and again in 1905 These rites, along with the Swedenborgian Rite (also considered irregular), formed the core of the newly established Order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis


2. Crowley was NEVER the head of the Golden Dawn.

3. OTO was a quasi-Masonic organization with no ties to the Golden Dawn.

However Crowleys own appetite for grandure and self aggrandizement has caused the order to undergo a progressive degradation which now has it hidden from the world practicing rites which none of them understand, bestowing ridiculous titles and grades upon unworthy cohorts and confederates.

None of them understand the rites? But, of course, you do? Ridiculous titles? You mean like ONA's ridiculous titles?


1. Neophyte
2. Initiate (also called Novice)
3. External Adept
4. Internal Adept
5. Master/Mistress (also called Master of Temple/Mistress of Earth or Lady Master)
6. Grand Master/Grand Mistress (also called Magus/Mousa or Grand Lady Master)
7. Immortal

You don't think "Immortal" is the personification of cheesey titles? Cmon!


Although the various volumes of the EQUINOX, there is INVALUABLE insight to be attained, the overall methodology of the O.T.O. is flawed by the very existence of the order itself which contradicts the existence of Crowleys unearthly A:. A:., by the perpetuation of "self" affirming acts by the heads and neophytes of the tradition.

The OTO & the A:. A:. are completely unrelated to each other. Crowley said so in the Official Instructions, throughout the Libers & in his diaries.(Such as Tunisia 1924)

This all leads me to wonder if you have actually read Crowley's works or merely what the ONA says about Crowley.

but anyway. The Orders of the golden dawn and Ordo templi orientis are incredibly elitist and cloistered (personal experience) and have little to no basis in ACTUAL attainment (most of which is "precieved" by others resulting in either the denial or granting of an illusory "title" or "grade".

Please prove this theory of yours. Because all I can see is error & speculation. But do what thou wilt.

- Seti

References:

Crowley, Aleister. The Confessions of Aleister Crowley: An Autohagiography

Crowley, Aleister. The Magical Diaries of Aleister Crowley
(Tunisia 1923) : Edited by Stephen Skinner

Wilson, Robert Anton. Cosmic Trigger: The Final Secret of the Illuminati

Grant, Kenneth. Remembering Aleister Crowley (1991)

[Omnihilus]

Ok. thanks for all that.
Either way, anyone involved with those groups might as well masturbate and chant god names. (*lmao!! you could argue that those two things are at the heart of most crowleyan philosophy anyway)

The title of immortal and ipsissimus (or however you spell that ridiculous title).

are not the same.

but...you being you, would know all about the intricacies of everything having to do with anything.

so i'll spare both of us (mainly you), the unecessary speech.

fair thee well in thine accretion of knowledge and such.

[Seti-I-Shadim]

Either way, anyone involved with those groups might as well masturbate and chant god names. (*lmao!! you could argue that those two things are at the heart of most crowleyan philosophy anyway)


No, but if you think masturbating & chanting God names will help you... Please continue in your spiritual practice.:rolleyes:

On a serious note, I asked you to prove your points & thats all you respond with? In other words, you can't or won't answer.

FYI, I did not claim that "Immortal" was equivalent to any other title or grade. I simply stated that "Immortal" is a cheesey title.

A last note, I do not claim to "know all about the intricacies of everything having to do with anything." But concerning Crowley, after your last lame response, I will now claim to know more than you.

Love & kisses,

Seti

[Omnihilus]

You more than likely do.

But as for The Order of Nine Angles serving to inhibit the "good name" of Satanism; such a claim is tenuous at best.

Firstly one would have to define a singular definition of what Satanism "IS" at all. And such a concept of dogmatic unity of perception is...well unsatanic. If you incorporate further extrapolation of philosophy and/or ritualistic employ, you have grounds for many pointless and heated arguments about the issue.


However if you are speaking purely in chronological terms, the church of satan by no means defines the intricacies of what is known as satanism. The Yetzidis are the first verifiable satanic cult to operate in the world, and with a lineage which is not only over2000 years old and shrouded in obscurity, one would be hard pressed to find a previous standard of satanism.

Add to that the fact that SIMPLY because Lavey included a SNIPPET of the Yetzidi black book, that his cult forms the essence of satanism. It just can't be done in good logic.

The Order of Nine Angles Tradition claims to hail from distant times and methods of practice, possibly neolithic britain. I've seen exhibits from that era, and if thier claims are indeed substantiated that would mean thier traditions earliest forms are over 23,000 years old, and thier predecessors built and knew the true esoteric purpose of the stone circles, including stonehenge (somethin to be inferred from thier in depth knowledge of the workings of "nexions").
With a concrete goal and an invisible head, the order already forms a difference in similarity with Lavey's creation.


Concrete goals and an invisible head (whether through deception or hermetic refuge)
are tantamout to a methodological definition of Sith protocol.

Not to mention the apprehension of univeral dark engergies by the sith AND the Order of Nine Angles, exmplified by thier apprehension both esoterically and exoterically of acasual energies.


Anton Lavey's system is almost purely ideological, with some meager scrapings of ritual to fluff the batter. Even his "Satanic Rituals" was only a combination of already existing material with manuscripts which were simply edited for his purpose.


OF WHICH the "Ceremony of the Nine angles" is of relevant import.
The O.N.A. "Rite of Nine Angles" when compared with Lavey's purposeless rendition shows a marked differentiation of process and intention. While Anton Lavey talks about the Lovecraft mythos in relevance to the rite. Since the differences would require much more elaboration i will simply post a synopsis manuscript of the O.N.A. "rite of nine angles".

The C.O.S. is more of a club than a purposful conglomerate. With membership fees and cards and weekly meetings and newletters, they are hardly the example of a mighty yet silent force as the sith, which moves largely behind the scenes, yet influences change on a massive scale. Such a principle known as Aeonics and perpetuated by the O.N.A and the I.O.T. (illuminates ov Thanateros), and is tantamount to universal process. Indeed it is universal process.

Compared to this...Lavey is simply a joke, and a dead joke at that. His legacy is a shadow of other, more discreet orgnizations (of which the o.t.o, its offshoots, and the golden dawn, play no relevant part).

And as for human sacrifice. It has never dissapeared or diminished, only changed forms. It is a natural law that there will be that which is lain to rest, giving rise to new forms and purposes. Its just a matter of understanding that. It's also a matter of understanding O.N.A. "opfer" protocol.


"Attain the climax of emptiness,
preserve the utmost quiet;
as myriad things act in concert,
I thereby observe the return.
things flourish,
then each returns to its root.
Returning to the root is called stillness:
stillness is called return to life,
return to Life is called the constant;
knowing the constant is called enlightenment.
Acts at random, in ignorance of the constant, bode ill.
Knowing the constant gives perspective;
this perspective is impratial.
Impartiality is the highest nobility;
the highest nobility is divine,
and the divine is the way.
This way is everlasting,
not endangered by physical death"- Lao Tzu, Tao te ching Pvb.#16/Thomas Cleary ed.

[Omnihilus]

A note as to the use of "chthonic"
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=chthonic&ia=luna&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse %2Fchthonic)
chtho‧ni‧an  /ˈθoʊhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnihttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngən/Pronunciation Key (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/)[thoh-nee-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn]Pronunciation Key (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://forum.sithnet.net/forum/)
–adjective Classical Mythology of or pertaining to the deities, spirits, and other beings dwelling under the earth.

It is important to note the use of even the name "chuthulu", which means "man of the underworld". The men of Cutha were known as the men of the underworld for thier culture developed within a literal graveyard city which grew to vast proportions,(sumer/babyl.). When Ur yet stood, Cutha was. The Denizens of Cutha had thier own ways which were unknown in origin. They had thier own system of laws and government. I'm not saying i know everything about them, but i know that they had a system of esoteric practice that tapped into the very underworld currents they immersed thier lives in. They used those currents to tap into even vaster forces. The Hotly debated "Necronomicon" and "Gates of the Necronomicon", MAY in fact represent some intact core esotric process left behind by the now gone Cuthtites.

The Seven fold way of the O.N.A.
The apprehension of Da'ath in the qabbalistic tradition
(the apprehension of Da'ath enables one to cross over to the realms of the qlippoth; or Shell worlds, dark regions of mind body and spirit, said to hail from forgotten times and spaces, being created before this universe. A cosmic underworld or conglomerate of worlds which predates our own and contains beings which may become manifest in this dimension through the apprehension of Da'ath, which translates into greek as GNOSIS)

Da'ath itself is a sevenfold structure hidden and invisible within the tree of life and is known as the abyss and must be crossed and mastered before further attainment may be known. However it is interesting to note that Crowley believed that one could not TRULY progress beyond the abyss and retain original forms, for to do so would cause one to become a "black brother". Instead one should relinquish all into the darkness and become what was known as a "babe of the abyss", which i BELIEVE automatically implies the emerging of the Magus.

Even Crowley himself said that his ways were in effect a rekindling of the sumerian tradition.
(one MUST note that all qabbalist tradition hails from a region which was once sumeria, and later babylon)

Thusly is important to note that the energies dealt with are of an antedelluvian nature. Hailing from the first high civilization in the world, the aeonic current would have been intensely concentrated as it has not been in 26,000 years (casual placement of acausal aeonic process within this galaxy).



The Rite of Nine Angles






This rite is the central mystery of alchemy, and clues to it abound in alchemical and pseudo-alchemical literature - e.g. in Maier’s Scrutinium Chymicum, The Secret Book of Artephius and the sympneumata of Laurence Oliphant. The details of this rite are published here for the first time. The essential secret of this rite is the coming together of two individuals: priest and priestess who, on earth (that is Gaia) stand in a circle within a tetrahedron which encloses them completely (cf. Rosarium Philosophorum, - “make a round circle of the man and the woman”). The conjoining of the two achieves the Philosophers Stone - the operation takes place in space (that is, 3 dimensions) according to the flow of time. It is essential for the two individuals to be, in Jung’s terminology, ‘individuated’ - that is, individuals who have undergone the magical grade ritual of Internal Adept (which the Golden Dawn misrepresented as the so called knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel and which is equivalent to the alchemical process of putrefaction) and the ritual of the Internal Adept (which in its genuine form involves the candidate living in isolation for several months), may be regarded as necessary preparation for the Rite of the Nine Angles.

Only through the female are the forces represented by the three alchemical substances and their nine combinations capable of being released in a physical way (cf. Oliphant’s Sympneumata, p. 101 f ) and despite many allusions to the contrary the real rite requires actual individuals since otherwise the Philosophers Stone is not Possible. The rite exists in two forms: the chthonic and the natural. The latter takes place at the summer solstice, in a consecrated glade where the energies of Gaia are pronounced. Usually, the glade itself forms the circle and the tetrahedron (symbolic of the Nine Angles) is constructed astrally via the use of an esoteric chant after the individuals have identified themselves symbolically with the forces involved. Thus, the female represents Gaia and beyond, and the male those forces normally symbolized by Sol. Together, through the act of union, they become the Gate and achieve in the dissolution past the circle of the forces, the Stone itself. This achievement, and the dissolution, is entirely empathic and does not depend in any way on word, gesture, ritual or knowledge of any kind whatever, and it is the empathy the individuals posses for their surroundings and the forces that makes the rite successful. Such empathy is the only aim of the grade ritual of Internal Adept, and indeed, initiation itself, and for the natural form of the rite of the Nine Angles this empathy approximates to the Taoist ‘Wu-Wei’. The consciousness induced if the rite is done correctly is a re-presentation of the Philosophers Stone, and such consciousness alters in a profound way the lives of the individuals involved, and, sometimes, the world as well, through ‘mimesis’.

The Chthonic form is conducted within a circle of stones (usually nine in number), on the Winter Solstice, the tetrahedron being at the centre of this circle. This tetrahedron is made of a precious stone and the vibration, by the participants, of a secret chant, produces changes in the crystal similar to the way light produces changes in a photo-electric cell. According to one authoritative tradition, the best material for the tetrahedron is quartz (rock crystal) and the chant the repetition of the vibrated phrase: Binah Ath, ga wath am. This vibration is akin, in depth of tone, to a Tibetan Buddhist chant. When the tetrahedron reacts (and the larger it is, the shorter the reaction time) the union begins. The changes induced by this version of the rite are ‘lunar’ - that is, causal and directive. In many respects, the chthonic form is more powerful, but it is also very dangerous for the individuals involved. This form of the rite is basically a calling forth of the Dark Gods and is not to be attempted lightly. Typically, Aleister Crowley mis-interpreted this rite. From an essentially hermetic ritual he made the pseudo-mystical IX* of the O.T.O., distorting the empathy of the participants by insisting on Tantric knowledge and using words and forms suited to the Old Aeon. The magic of the New Aeon is pre-eminently the magic of Thought (that is, devoid of both word and ‘esoteric knowledge’). Crowley probably knew the truth, and had a good laugh at those who believed his version.


Anton Long, Order of Nine Angles

[Seti-I-Shadim]

But as for The Order of Nine Angles serving to inhibit the "good name" of Satanism; such a claim is tenuous at best.

Firstly one would have to define a singular definition of what Satanism "IS" at all. And such a concept of dogmatic unity of perception is...well unsatanic. If you incorporate further extrapolation of philosophy and/or ritualistic employ, you have grounds for many pointless and heated arguments about the issue.


First, let us go on that premise: that a singular definition of what Satanism IS unsatanic. That there is no singular definition of Satanism. Very well. Since that must include COS, one can safely disregard many points you raised concerning them.

Second, the ONA Sinister Tradition as a 23,000 year old tradition? Whose predecessors knew the mysteries of the Stonehenge & Woodhenge, etc? Don't tell me they knew Pythagoras & Jesus and they started the Greek Classical Age...and they built the pyramids with the aliens. C'mon.:rolleyes: and the proof is what? The evidence is where?

What I see the ONA as is simply another cult. It makes its ancient claims. It spews its long-winded tomes of about the Sinister Way while all the while simply creating more sheep for the Christians to slaughter. There is no independence of thought. There is no freedom. Enjoy your path if this is the path you choose. As for myself, I want nothing to do with it.

-Seti

[Omnihilus]

Lol!! how combative you are.

No one cares what you do with your wyrd. That's your business. And the O.N.A MOST certainly isn't trying to get more followers. Thier worth is not in thier numbers *cough* *sithism* *cough*


As for freedom, nothing could be further from the truth...as i will prove. If there is any satanic organization operating in the world today that has absoloutely NO constraining protocols regarding its followers, it is the O.N.A.

It is most CERTAINLY not the COS

And my god....it's not the temple of set (even you have to agree those guys are a joke)

And i did not say that thier tradition has remained INTACT in its original forms, i only said that the original forms of thier tradition MAY possibly be over 23,000 years old.

One must take into account that they are accurately placed in a region which would allow for such an occurence.

The british isles were once known as albion by those indiginous* to it.
It's simply silly to say that CORE remnants of a tradition may not percolate down through the aeons changing form (as is implied by TRUE aeonic progression).

The Order of Nine Angles admits openly that the archetype of "satan" and the ideology of "satanism" only serve as an impetus to greater realization. Indeed one is only actively involved in "Satanism" (as a raw mindset) in the formative grades. After that a new realization emerges.

I would surmise that the O.N.A. understands the dark currents yet puts those dark currents into forms that would be readily acceptable to a specific percentage which could use the change.

for ex. Anton long has expressed his distaste for Nazism, yet there WAS a group allied with the seven fold path which was named "Temple 88" and was primarily "national socialist" in paradigm.

The O.N.A. realizes the stagnation inherent in national socialism, as well as the corruption that it may entail. Thier eventual aims are that of a unified world which seeks alliance with other worlds. (a notion promulgated by some o.n.a. affiliates is that of conquering other worlds, and it is one that I personaly disagree with).

Along with many other and equally nebulous aims that become clear as one walks the path.





As for the possibility of extraterrestrial life influencing this worlds development.
Study the complete works of Zecharia Sitchin (very fascinating and well pieced research)

There is a greater connection than many are aware of.
And as for the proof...hell...we may BE the proof! *lol



Another possibility put forth since the beginning of human civillization (and before), is the concept of EXTRADIMENSIONAL intelligence influencing the evolution of this and other worlds ("inter"dimensional, impliing that said force is "confined" to move freely yet only within one dimension at a time; "extra" dimnensional, impliing that said force has free range of and non/exists beyond any definitive form or concept).


This is a main tenet of the O.N.A.; the seven fold path being the road map (different for each of us), which leads to the acasual realms which then MAY give one council with what are tenuously known as "the dark gods", personified as a race by the name "Nekalah".


One MUST be aware that mindsets give birth to civillizations, and that there is that which gives birth to mindsets, and the O.N.A. has an indepth knowledge and understanding (at least at its core) of those workings, Both naturally and influenced.


To wrap up...if you are going to call yourself a Satanist at all, it implies that one day you will move BEYOND the concept of satanism in your understanding...


such a principle is only held by the O.N.A. and the society of dark lily

Freedom, is a given.


by the way, The order of Nine Angles reach is far and obscure, that is one of the reasons they exist...to CHANGE things. The "sheep" that you say the O.N.A. generates are simply the failures, they are the ones who cannot tread the path of thier own individual destiny.

it does not take a "christian" (whatever that is...honestly), to slaughter such a person. Such a one has usually already long begun the process of individual anti-summation (self destruction).

The O.N.A. has generated very influential individuals who, even now may be affecting some of the very same occurences that you witness on television. They are a very active order and i must lend them my respect. They don't simply sit around in thier grottoes and plot luncheons and pointless rituals based upon archetypal forms that most of the aspirants can't even PRONOUNCE (those such forms having numbers and fractions in thier titles!!).

On an end note, Anton Long; the once Grandmaster of the Order of Nine Angles has long ago retired to a stage of the path which acasually and casually called for his relinquishing of authority. Such is the mark of a master. To inherit an empire, to set forth a pattern for the progression and summation of destinies in a real way.
And then the releasing of all into the void that new forms may arise.
Anything else is stagnation and folly.

If you're going to call yourself a satanist...
at least have some roots right?

[Omnihilus]

A note of clarification:

AL=Anton Long (ret.)
CB=christos Beest(potential hier to office of M/GM of the O.N.A.)







An Inheritance



As a new phase for the ONA appears to beckon - with a new "outer representative" - I shall here set down a few final words from an insider's perspective, to be accepted or not by those who have not participated. Every twenty years or so a new heir must be found. The most recent Grand Master was thus chosen by the Grand Mistress before him, and she by he who came before her - and so on, back through the centuries, as the Tradition claims. At the time of the last Grand Mistress (in the 1960's), there were several Temples in existence which followed variations of the Tradition - most in Shropshire, but some also in the North of England. Not surprisingly, the membership of each of these Temples was often very small - sometimes as few as three - and on some occasion’s non-Initiates were "recruited" for some ceremonies. This lady, judging the time right for the next phase, then brought all those Temples together, and named the collective group the Order of Nine Angles. AL was at this time, a young new Initiate of one of those Temples in the North.

This merging occurred at the time when a new heir was needed - thus AL was initiated and tutored by the Grand Mistress in the full Tradition. After some arduous tests, he was chosen and informed - and the lady and her daughter Eulalia disappeared, to the next stages that awaited them. What AL inherited was rather garbled and fragmented, and not without some mystification. But, the teachings were original, and possessed some promise (the main teachings were esoteric chant; the principles of culling; the Grade Rituals; the Dark Gods mythos [including Baphomet]; Insight roles; and of course some ceremonies). AL, via his own subsequent life of experiencing, then significantly extended and codified these teachings into a practical system of magick, enabling anyone - anyone who possessed the Desire - to follow its hazardous way towards the goal of Adeptship, and beyond. AL's many unique contributions included Aeonics and The Star Game. All these new or refined methods arose out of his own experimentation, and the work undertaken by his Temples and those in alliance (including two groups which, after nearly twenty years, are still active - one Sapphic, and one "Uranian"). Some aspects of this experimentation - e.g. certain Insight Roles - have attracted some attention and scrutiny from diverse quarters, though rarely any understanding.

After this period of exploration, a decision was taken in the mid 1980's to publish the results - in keeping with the sinister strategy begun by the Grand Mistress. Other significant contributions were made by a lady who was initiated around the same time as AL. She sometimes wrote under the name of "Conrad Robury". Around this time of publication, and after successfully undertaking the rite of Grand Master, it was time for AL himself to choose an heir. [It may also be of interest to note here that the 17 year cycle of the Ceremony of Recalling was successfully undertaken at this time, with AL's
Mistress as the chief celebrant.] I underwent the arduous testing procedure, was chosen - or rather, I chose myself - and informed. I then set about my tasks of continuing sinister strategy. In comparison to AL - who effectively made the Seven-Fold Way complete, taking it far beyond its fragmentary state [and spawning so much obvious influence and imitation] - I consider my contributions, so far, to be modest: the youthful work of one individual struggling towards insight. But, gradually, I have extended the Way into new realms: via Images and Musick, and have further developed the corpus of chant. There are some ceremonies, some ordeals (The Black Pilgrimage).

Those who have stayed the course since their Initiation in the 1960's and 70's are small in number, but are widespread and not without some influence: someone high up within the Priesthood of the Catholic Church; another a professor at a renowned university in Europe; someone in mainstream politics; one or two who have established something of interest in Slovenia...

What is achieved is achieved - or not. Many strategies have been tried, particularly over the past thirty years. Some have appeared contradictory; many have raised questions; most have provoked accusations - which is as it should be. Have any caused insight? Perhaps the tactics of the past have enabled a prelude - a prelude to a flowering which some, using the illusory jargon of the past, might interpret as a "new aeon". Perhaps a distillation from trial and (very often - or so it seemed) error, may in time reveal what lies as yet unexpressed, beyond all current forms that give the appearance of understanding/personal control; and in these forms I include - not merely for provocative ends, but as a statement of reality - Satanism, the theory of "race", "Western" paganism, to name several...

Because it may serve to illustrate an essential point, I shall here tackle the persistent assumptions that I now am, or that I now regard myself as: a) a Master - or even Grand Master; and b) the Leader/dictator of the ONA, with all the influence that such a role entails. These are just assumptions (from which have grown other assumptions), since I have never made such claims. These assumptions are prevalent because there are many who still believe a genuine esoteric order to be a type of club, comprised of members who aspire towards various official positions of authority (carrying pretentious titles - such as 'Master of the Temple'). What really is an esoteric organization? Does it really need members, who require governing and organising, and motivating? What, essentially, is the purpose of an esoteric Way: to collect MSS? To perform "occult rites"? To bind a whole society to a dogma? It should be clear to anyone who understands the "Grade rituals" of the Seven Fold Way, that becoming an "outer representative" - i.e. undertaking the often ephemeral tasks of meeting prospective adherents, answering letters, writing articles - has nothing to do with what is meant by the title of Grand Master.

If a genuine Grand Master retires from a form of public role/contact, does that then mean he ceases to be a Grand Master? AL remains, and has thus remained throughout the past fifteen years, the present Grand Master, because that is, in essence, what he is. It has been stated several times in Order MSS that the descriptions used to designate a stage along the Way are not rewards given by someone else, or a title awarded to oneself because of a deluded ego; nor do they represent positions of responsibility within an hierarchical organization. And nor, in reality, do they carry any weight of authority over others, in the esoteric - or otherwise - sense. Rather, they are descriptions of a new type of human being - and thus represent, after many years of experiencing, an alchemical becoming: an evolution, unique to each individual, that is the journey towards the dis-covering of the primal apprehension.

Some only progress so far - either via succumbing to their own limitations, or simply because it is in their nature to remain at a certain stage of Being; and only a few follow the Way to its latter stages: perhaps one or two a century. For myself, that apprehension which is symbolized by the title of "Master" is some years away - if it is willed that
I am able to progress that far. What is, is; what shall be, will be in its own species of time; what can be, may be.

CB, 2000

[Seti-I-Shadim]

lol Actually, that wasn't me being combative. Hell, I was positively pleasant from a comparative point of view.

No one cares what you do with your wyrd. That's your business. And the O.N.A MOST certainly isn't trying to get more followers. Thier worth is not in thier numbers *cough* *sithism* *cough*


Perhaps the ONA is not interested in numbers, etc. They are not interested in propagating their belief system. I will accept that as possible. You on the other hand seem extraordinarily interested in propagating the ONA belief system. This statement may seem rather unjustified and unduly harsh.

First, you posted a great deal of ONA materials. In and of itself, this is non-problematic. But you have also gone to great lengths to attack Thelema, Crowley, OTO, LaVey, COS, TOS at every opportunity. In other words, all other competing systems of magick. If you were not seeking to impress your belief system over all other belief systems, there would be no rational reason to do this.

I could go through your post point by point, but honestly it most probably would not make a bit of difference to either of us. So, I'll leave it.

- Seti

[Master Thompson]

So.....what you two are saying or expressing rather; is that you both have some concept of theology and mysticism? Okay...suggestion then...(and I offer this with the utmost respect,) but can we try to maybe....cut this down a bit...you know...so the rest of us can follow along?

NOT TO SAY WE CAN'T....we can...I just have meetings and phone calls to make and if I am going to through a jab in...i'd like to put my two cents in and get out.

Actually,

This is the essence of Sithism is it not? I mean we are reading from two individuals both strong in knowledge and insight trying to get subdue the other.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Which one will triumph?

Wagers anyone? Lord Omnihilus seems to be a good sort, smart, insightful, plenty of knowledge and a strong vocabulary in which to express it all. Seti however, we know Seti....Seti has basically become an institution of knowledge and insight...TRUSTED institution mind you.

Hmmm

I wonder which will be the victor in all of this, which will prove to be the Master and which will yield assume the title of Apprentice?

Thoughts anyone? (By the way, I'm simply razzing you two...no harm intended.)

[Omnihilus]

Nah, I only figure it would be an interesting point of interest for anyone seeking to make comparisons between a satanic organization and the body of the Sith.

I myself do not follow the sevenfold way exactly as is lain down in O.N.A. tenets.
I see intense validity in some points
And others are merely subjective, and i use them mainly for synthesis.


I haven't gone to great lengths to attack the temple of set.
but man o man i could!!
Plus it's already been done.

Michael Aquino actually wrote several letters (varying in maturity) to Anton Long.
The content of those letters hardly places him and his organization in high esteem.
I could post the actual exchange ( there were several of them, soon cut off by AL) which demonstrates the differences between the two order heads.

Aquino also wrote many threatening and defamatory letters to the head of the Society of Dark Lily. and even went to lengths to make her life quite difficult for a time. And especially since she was a cripple (magda ghram), he's not doing much for his "path".

Nor does it appear to be doing much for him!!


As for attacking crowley, i think the man knew the core, quite intimately.

but look what the apostles did after jesus died eh?

They wrote the bible!! *lmao and we know where that went!




Another reason i post material is this:

Ask yourself how many SERIOUS occult groups are there out there, with FREELY availible knowledge which falls almost directly in parallel with this particular phase of development?
Not all that many. Most "dark" sites are merely the generations of angsty teens with bones to pick with everything and everyone, hardly progressive.


No i'm not battling for superiority or anything like that. And the night of my short and effortless post was filled with external drama anyway *lol

its whatever really.


And as for the whole "master/apprentice" thing.

The lovely lady in my avatar is my "student" if you will...

and my god...she's enough to handle as it is, living together and all. tough stuff from time to time.

[coolblue]

I myself do not follow the sevenfold way exactly as is lain down in O.N.A. tenets.

I see intense validity in some points

And others are merely subjective, and i use them mainly for synthesis.





By your posts - and the above - you it seems (he/she/they) have grasped the essence of the ONA way.


Which is of guidance, not dogma, and of the individual - and which way becomes unique when the Adept is born from the (alchemical) change/transformation/synethsis caused by the earlier stages.


There is thus an understanding of causal *forms* and their use, by Adepts and others, and an understanding of, and the use of, the presencing of acausal energies, which energies non-Adepts, still tied to the illusion of duality (evil/good) call or describe as *dark*.


The causal forms are used to cause or be the genesis of other causal changes, such as to transform individuals, and *societies* and *civilizations*.


One such causal form is *politics* and its various manifestations, one of which was/is *National Socialism*. One use of such a form is heresy, to be a genuine heretic, although few understand this. There are other uses for this particular form.

Another even more heretical form today is radical Islam - to fight; to provoke change; to challenge orthodoxy (by very outwardly fundamentalist means - and herein for the genuine Adept is the knowing of laughter).


Despite all such knowledge being available, people still mis-understand the use of such causal, limited, political forms by one of more ONA Adepts, and cannot it seems understand either the *illusion* of such causal forms, and the reason why such forms are used to be the genesis of Change. Such use does not mean or imply personal belief in such forms.


The same applies to that which has been called *satanism*. This is a causal form, limited in causal time and place, and while it can presence certain acausal (dark) energies, it is not the essence of such energies.


A few understand that the ONA itself is but a causal form - it has changed, and it will change, being but a beginning, now, in this causal time and place.


To fully understand the Sith, one must understand the acausal - and the way acausal being is and can be manifest, and how acausal energies can be used to transform an individual.


To be of the Sith, there must be an acausal presencing within the being of the causal, human, individual - and this requires a *goal*, a knowing of Wyrd (or whatever causal term one wishes to use to describe this apsect of such a presencing).


Thus, there is a knowing of Aeons, and a desire to be a warrior for a new Aeon so that the acausal can be presenced, here on Earth.


Note - warrior, which means aiding in practical ways the acausal presencing used/chosen. But how many will understand this? A warrior fights - for a *cause*. Someone such as a Sith knows for what it is they are ultimately fighting, beyond whatever forms they may use.


To so understand, to so know, there must be knowledge of nexions. We are nexions - and to access the acausal via such a nexion is quite easy...


There are many other nexions.


So, there is a beginning, for those who can go beyond *forms*. For the power of the acausal is great.

[Omnihilus]

This is exactly correct. An individual is but lead, through the refinement of circumstance and true esoteric pursuits (which if correctly undertaken are one and the same), achieves synthesis, and may thus apprehend the "golden" state of being. However even such a thing is only a means.

The BEST casual definition i can come up with of an "immortal", is one who has achieved SIGNIFICANT numbers of aeonic workings and has thusly achieved thier material destiny upon this sphere and within this dimension.

Acasualy an immortal may be described as a being who THROUGH thier workings and trials and insights, has created an acasual double, a vehichle which may hold free range of all space and time, thus eliminating the need to embody one form for incarnation.

Such a process is mirrored in the bible, by jesus's death and resurrection (notice that his resurrection was not of the flesh, for he was able to walk through walls and instructed no one to touch him). Also pay mind to the dilligence with which he pursued his wyrd. It is also important to note that is was only AFTER the casual summation of yeshua ben yusef, that he was able to achieve acasual existence, confirmed by God saying, "Today you are my son". Meaning, upon that summation he had achieved true divinity, and the ability to transubstatiate his material form DIRECTLY, and even more than that, HE WAS ABLE TO ENTER AND EXIT THE ACASUAL REALM AT WILL, appearing and dissapearing to individual who were otherwise separated by vast distances. (something he never did in life, despite the claims of power attributed to him, a note of perspective).

As you can see from that example, the tenets of the ONA stretch FAR beyond satanism. Satanism and even the ONA are just forms, as you say Coolblue, as we are.

The seven fold way exists as it is to provide a gateway for BECOMING nexions, living gateways to the acasual realms. Such a pursuit is also a process, one undertaken many times without our consent, making it truly universal and NOT subject to belief( it however underlies all belief and material and immaterial circumstance).


The sevenfold way has a duplicate in the east, as it does in many other cultures. This way is known as the "Pace of Yu", and has been in employ for several thousand years. It is a seven step process of initiation which coincides with the seven stars of the big dipper. The aspirant then creates a double through this proccess which is then able to move onward to another unknown realm upon summation of the pace. The acasual is not to be mistaken as "some great out there", even though that is implied in its non/existence.

The acasual may be apprehended here...and now.

[Omnihilus]

Acausal Existence
The Secret Revealed

Anton Long


Acausal existence - the secret of true Immortality - has been hinted at many times in certain esoteric writings connected with a particular LHP. In the past, a few Adepts of the LHP - and the occasional notorious individual interested in dark sorcery - tried to secure for themselves an acausal existence by dark rites of sacrifice, and as a result dark legends arose. But such means are not really necessary.

Before describing what is necessary, a brief examination of such acausal existence will be in order. According to a sinister tradition we as individuals possessed of consciousness have both a causal and an acausal aspect to that consciousness. The acausal is latent (or mostly so) and magickal Initiation awakens it - opening a gate or nexion to the acausal.
This allows the acausal to be apprehended (usually via a symbolism such as the septenary Tree of Wyrd) and acausal energies to be used/directed (i.e. 'magick'). The result is an 'expansion' of consciousness. Progression by the Initiate to the higher grades of initiation is actually the expansion of the acausal in individual consciousness (or, viewed another way, the
progression of the individual into the acausal) - a balance of causal/acausal being achieved in 'the Abyss'. Beyond this, because of the balance so attained, it is possible to transcend to the acausal - to create an acausal existence when the causal ceases (ie. physical death). The acausal is not however, a "dreamy realm" or some kind of nirvana/heaven. It is rather, the very essence of Being - beyond opposites, primal Chaos. Nirvana and such like are abstract moral forms - ie. they are "unbalanced" since they lack darkness, the sinister, the negative..... [Nirvana and such like are usually described in terms only of 'light'.] The acausal is the realm of the Dark Gods - and these beings are not imaginative symbols for the titillation of consciousness, nor simply a part of the psyche, to be transcended or negated or whatever by 'forces of light'. Rather, they exist independent of our consciousness [yet such is the nature of the acausal that they are also part of what is dormant within us] and while they may be accessed (or 'discovered') by consciousness and thus presenced in the causal (on Earth) their actual intrusion would totally disrupt sentient life in the causal - like the meeting of matter and antimatter. Sinister magick (of the aeonic and
internal kind) may be said to be like a machine or engine where containment of opposites is possible and controllable in certain amounts and under certain conditions. [in simple terms, sinister aeonic magick contains the flow of the acausal into a temporal form - usually an Aeon and its associated civilization -via a nexion/magickal centre to thus over thousands of years increase the amount of the acausal that is presenced, increasing thus evolution in individuals in accordance with sinister goals. Such is one of the forms of real Black Magick.]

The nature of acausal existence may be apprehended by individuals by certain sinister rites such as those of the Nine Angles. To achieve an individual acausal existence the sinister path must be followed, from Initiate to Internal Adept to Master/Mistress and beyond because this following of such a path in the way indicated (qv. Naos and Black Book) creates acausal consciousness in the individual over causal time. The Grade Ritual of Grand Master/G. Mistress makes the Adept more acausal than causal. Beyond this, is a simple ritual (the solo Nine Angles rite done by the Grand Master/G.Mistress) when consciousness is transferred beyond the nexion opened/created by the previous Grade Ritual. Immortality - the final stage of the way - is then achieved, followed then or shortly thereafter by causal death, although consciousness can be transferred to inhabit another causal body, this is not usually done as wyrd is achieved. Simple, really, although this alchemical process takes about 25 years. By virtue of the nexion, the new Immortal alters the temporal structure of the world, usually for an Aeon.

Now the secret has been revealed, the possibility is open to all. But it is doubtful if more than one or two a century will try, such is human weakness.


1991 eh, Order of Nine Angles

[darth arctos]

I see the Sith as a kind of LHP martial art. Martial Arts can be used as magick. A kata can be used as a banishing ritual, and is also an example of a Moving Zen meditation.