View Full Version : Palpatine´s rise to power.
I'm not doing this for arguement's sake, just curious...
"Palpantine did not reveal himself at first. He remained one step ahead of everyone and gained almost unlimited power among the Republic."
-I have heard so much about Palpatine's rise to power in the posts lately. I wouldn't mind discussing that if you all don't mind. Was he any more powerful for taking the title of Emperor? Was he very devious at all, the republic was in trouble before he got there a I think? Was the Jedi council's lack of attention on this the reason why they didn't see it or their arrogance; or both? Was his rise to power all that hard to do? I mean exactly how did he earn respect on this site? (I truly am not meaning to be mean here, though it sounds like it, I would just like to know.)
Good question.
From my point of view, the actions of Palpatine summons all of the sith way.
He acted undercover, used is knowledge of the dark side to influnece the things to happen, and, like a master chess player, made is check mate in a bang.
Under his influence, the galaxy was pacified, unified, and kept under control.
It is even proposed somewere in the expander universe that the imperial forces kept the Yuuzhan Vong at bay on the outher rims of the galaxy.
its almost impossible for any sith follower not to admire his work.
Darth Opacus
03-23-2006, 17:49
Palpantine was a master manipulator. He used his skills to mask his intentions from the Jedi, even when they were suspicious of him. The Jedi had fear that he was a Sith, but it took him actually telling Anakin for anyone to realize what was going on. Palpantine may not have been the most powerful Sith in terms of Force strength, but he will go down as one of the smartest and most dangerous.
Darth Cassus
03-23-2006, 21:46
Ok so Palpatine used his brain he tricked people and was a master of tactics. Those are the qulities of great leaders he was able to find your weakness and used it total against you. Or he found your greatest desire and said he could grant you it. He alwas was planning everthing and calculating the chances/outcome of different options. He was also very gifted with the force more then I think is revealed in the movies. He could very easly been the stroungest of all the sith.
Master Thompson
03-24-2006, 00:39
Azazel, How the hell are ya? Where you been hiding? :)
My Padawan Learner Diana...
SENATOR Palpatine was the cause the galactic unrest. Yes Chancelor Velorum was weak and on the the take ("so-to-speak,") and yes there were problems and "oh so grand wholly, of wholliest" of problems and issues facing the republic, sure but...sorry, business as usual for the standard republic. Yes Palpatine the master manipulator wove and spun his web of sedition and suspicion oh so brilliantly but sorry...The Galactic Republic WASN'T really that broken.......that bad except until he His Majasty arrived.
Ladies and gentlemen I submit to you that the "Great Plan" wasn't originally his plan. Darth Plageus was the author of this master piece. President Clinton took credit of policy's initiated by President the Bush 1 administration so...on and on...we go. Chancelor Palpatine/Darth Sidious took the mantle of Emporer because....wait for it....wait for it....
THE SITH EMPIRE ONCE RULED THE GALAXY AS AN EMPIRE! ("Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy...and we shall have piece.) Sound familiar.
Until they fumbled the ball...
Master Thompson
Darth Cassus
03-24-2006, 00:46
Master Thompson
I think that the Senate and the Republic was very curopt befoe palpatine came into power. That was proven many times that when Veloum was in power the Republic held little power.
Master Thompson
03-24-2006, 00:55
Hello to you too Darth Cassus, it's been a bit...
You are correct, 100%.
Remember....one man, took over the GALATIC REPUBLIC stood for over a thousand years. You don't do this by just coming in with a kick butt foreign policy agenda...it takes planning and maneuvering that is on a scale too massive to comprehend. The legendary patience of the Sith really kicked in on this one. Darth Cassus, only by force could the Jedi possibly attempt to pull something like this off and even then it be a major act of congress just to get ALL the Jedi on board with such a plan.
Yes he was corrupt, yes he was weak and yes needed to be replaced. That is just getting rid of a bad executive. His Majasty didn't fix anything...except but to restore the Sith Empire.
Darth Cassus
03-24-2006, 01:06
Yeah i've been under a rock but im back now.
Yeah Palpatine created and empire but it wasn't built in a day nor do I think it was totally sith, because he kept the galagtic senate around till the Death Star was completed. Even then he put the goveners in charge not the sith. So even though many people will hate me for saying it Palpatine was afraid that if he let the sith rule they would destroy his Galactic Empire.
DarthD
Darth Cassus,
”Yeah Palpatine created and empire but it wasn't built in a day nor do I think it was totally sith, because he kept the galagtic senate around till the Death Star was completed. Even then he put the goveners in charge not the sith. So even though many people will hate me for saying it Palpatine was afraid that if he let the sith rule they would destroy his Galactic Empire.”
-Hmm. I agree actually. If Palpatine hadn’t been patient and hadn’t taken as long to maneuver himself into the right position, there never would have been an Empire, because people can only be fooled so much. If he tried in the beginning to become Emperor then people would have figured it out. From what I have seen so far it seems the Sith conquer and as soon as there is little to threaten their authority, then they fight among themselves and crumble from the inside out. He kept the Empire as much under his thumb as he could.
Master Thompson,
“and even then it be a major act of congress just to get ALL the Jedi on board with such a plan.”
-Yeah totally. Many seemed loathe to get involved fearing that doing something about certain events might bring about something worse. (It reminds me of KOTOR I the way the Jedi order was too reluctant to get involved in the Mandalorian Wars. Though Revan and Malak did go and with them many Jedi. The Jedi could not come to a consensus because they were too afraid to act and others weren’t. I’m not sure in that case it was a good choice to make, for either side really, but it is hard to know.)
I think Palpatine was incredibly good at distracting the senate and the Jedi from the real events going on under the veil of deception. He used the Clone Wars as an excellent tool to distract everyone from looking at him. He used the excuse of the Separatist’s droid army to get someone (Jar Jar Binks standing in for Amidala) to call for a vote to give emergency powers to the chancellor. This enabled him to legally raise the clone army and promised to lay down that power once the crises was over. He continued events in the Clone Wars until he was ready to move on the Jedi themselves, but he wanted Anakin as his apprentice first. His plans are intricate and devious. He was incredibly good at what he did. I am not sure he actually gained anything from all that though, which is why I posted these questions to see where everyone stands (and Azazel created this thread-thanks for that:) ).
Hello there Master Thompson.
No need to thanx Diana.
I , as usual, disagree with you diana ( its becoming a good habit).
I think Palpatine gained everything by becoming the galaxyes emperor.
For a sith, absolute power and control over the sourrundings are the ultimate goal.
And he achieved all those, like it or not.
The keeping of the galactical senate was just something to keep the other plates quiet, and by that not having to send a couple of star destroyers to calm down any rebel planet, and at the same time, colecting from them "volunteers" to enlarge the stormtroopers army, and tax money, because, even for the sith, money is neede to pay for materials to build star destroyers (etc)
And he feared not that the sith would destroy the galactical empire, for there were only 2 siths, master (himself) and aprendice (lord Vader).
Even if (indempendently of Luke´s apearence) Vader would finish Palpatine, as usual in the sith way, things would be kept nicely inside the 2 sith rule.
If he managed to fullfill his masters inicial idea, well, thats another point for him, and the keeping of the sith ideal.
As i told before, to me is was a supreme chess player, putting all the pieces in the right place before making a final check mate.
"I , as usual, disagree with you diana ( its becoming a good habit)."
-lol, yes I like our little debates too. :)
"I think Palpatine gained everything by becoming the galaxyes emperor.
For a sith, absolute power and control over the sourrundings are the ultimate goal.
And he achieved all those, like it or not."
-Well of course I don't like what Palpatine did. :) the point is that...wait let me rephrase my question...What did Palpatine gain by getting ultimate control and gaining that power? Do power and control over others give you anything in return? ...except the constant chance of being toppled from power that is...I'm not so sure he gained anything by it all except maybe satisfaction.
Darth Cassus
03-24-2006, 23:18
Ok I was think and an other reason Palpatine didn't call it a sith empire because it may have brought more support to the rebels. I he called it a galactic empire like he did it made it more noble. The sith were not like as much at that time so calling it a sith empire could have been dangerous.
I'm not so sure he gained anything by it all except maybe satisfaction.
What else is there to gain ?
Personal satistaction, ultimate power, and the oportunity to fullfil the prophecy that the sith would rule the galaxy again.
He was not running a red cross charity dance over there.
Darth Cassus
03-27-2006, 21:04
Nope no imperial charities on palepatines watch.
"Personal satistaction, ultimate power, and the oportunity to fullfil the prophecy that the sith would rule the galaxy again." -Azazel
So am I to assume that he really gained nothing else besides satisfaction and power? (the third one there, fulfilling a prephesy, is nothing more that self-satisfaction as well)
Why is the self so important to Sith? I mean it seems like there is nothing more to live for in your code.
Darth Cassus
03-27-2006, 23:11
A sith doesn't let anything stop him/her. Being sith is about gaining power so we can achive are goals and that is alwas what it has been about.
Empress Palpatine
03-28-2006, 04:46
Everyone has goals. Palpatine just had bigger ones. Little people want to climb up the ladder, get richer, get a higher position, get the admiration from their peers. Think of what the ordinary person will do to get ahead. They will go deep into debt to go to college. Why? They want that top paying job, that executive position. They want their empire, which for the ordinary person is home ownership (your empire), a family (your subjects), and possibly a business. Palpatine just wanted it on a larger scale.
I think Palpatine was a more progressive emporer in many ways because he did bring that security and order that he promised. The common man in the galaxy could have benefitted. He killed off the Trade Federation. He did the galaxy a favor here. He eliminated organized religion. I think he ran an atheist state because no one else in the third trilogy even believed in the Force (even to the point of mocking Vader). Sith must have strictly been a secret society.
One thing that stands out is that no one missed the Jedi. Why? They got so forgotton so fast, even though it had only been about 20 years. In the third trilogy people spoke of it as "ancient" like it had died a 1000 years ago. Does this mean that the Jedi had poor contact with the masses? Were they thought of as having ivory tower syndrome? Were they seen as classist snobs? Why did not the public get upset when they were suddenly all killed? The majority of senators were not shocked or horrified. They just applauded Palpatine when he announced the empire.
Everyone was ready to toss out the old republic so easily. Is it beause they were alienated from it a long time ago? They were all happy to give Palpatine a try.
The movie only gives hints about what his administration was like. Perhaps the books say more (I leave that to those who are up on such). Most common people worry about things like security, safety, and how they are doing economically. Under Palpatine, did the educational system improve? Did crime lessen? Could people's kids go to college? Was the currency stable? Did people have cheep gas to put in the tank? Did the empire crack down on terrorism and rogue planets? People would ecide whether they were better or worse off than before?
So were the rebels fredom fighters or annoying terrorists? That may depend on your point of view. Perhaps the common galactic citizen saw them as Al Qaida.
Why would Palpatine want this position of power, aside from a certain personal satisfaction? Perhaps his reasons were patriotic. He wanted to clean up the neighborhood, so to speak.
"Think of what the ordinary person will do to get ahead. They will go deep into debt to go to college. Why? They want that top paying job, that executive position. They want their empire, which for the ordinary person is home ownership (your empire), a family (your subjects), and possibly a business."
-Some people fit this bill, yes, but not all. I for instance am training to be a teacher. I have to go to college for just over four years for that. Teachers do not get pain well at all where I live. I don't know the exact statistics, but starting pay for a beginning teacher with a bachelor's degree is around 25,000. Not exactly a ton of money. To cut down the amount I would owe, I go to a community college, I will start my last quarter there on the 3rd. I myself have not had to pay a penny for it myself, my parents are doing it for now. They keep track of it all and will treat it as a loan that I will be paying back for years afterwards. This way is only a little better than getting a student loan. Now when I graduate and am in that first job I certainly do not expect much money for it and I am not going to be in a position to get a management job unless I want to be a principal (no thank you). Not exactly an empire role there.
I also do not want a big house. I had a largish house as a kid and to tell the truth, they are just too much work. Cleaning it and doing the yard is a pain. I'd be happy with a humble little condo or apartment.
Do you really see a family as your subjects or was that creative lisence? lol. As for the family part...I have no guarantee I'll have a family, so why hold out for it. I like kids personally, but would never have them unless I got married, because they deserve to have a father. I do not feel that family is a requirement for happiness. Yes, it is nice and I would be very happy with one, but I'm not going to hold my breath for one either. I'm going to live my life as it is not sit there hoping for life to come to me.
Now the business part I may agree with, partly. I had always had dreams about owning a business. Now before you say "aha...I knew it..." realize that the motivations for this are quite different from the norm. Most people want a thriving business and to roll around in their hard-earned cash (figuratively I hope. lol). I would have a non-profit organization that creates products for sale that give much of their profits to charities. For instance I could produce bottled water that would give a small percentage to those that made the bottle and did the work with it and for shipping and all that, but the actual profit would go to charity, or even better food, clothes and other such needs for people that don't have them. I doubt in that kind of business I'd get a red cent for myself. This is my desire to make a difference in the world.
I realize that I am not really the norm when it comes to my goals, but they are as they are. And you quite possibly will not understand them, many light siders do not either. I am not searching to be a comfortably rich, married with three kids, with a thriving business type of woman. I am happy as I am. Happiness doesn't come from a fat wallet or a white picket fence, it comes from within.
Empress, once again you won the jackpot.
Your dissertation on how the jedi were quickly forgotten and banned as a old thing, and everything else also, were absolutly great.
The crime issue...as far as i know the emperor used Xizor´s smuglers to help building the death star, but even the USA used to give money to the drug dealers to help and fight Sendero Luminoso, and others comunist rebels in central and south america.Im pretty shure that the everyday citizen was well protected against urban crime.
Once again, brilliant.
Darth Cassus
03-28-2006, 21:29
As long as your in the empire you were safe from petty criminals.
Empress Palpatine
03-29-2006, 06:39
I remember a line in the movie "The Patriot." "Would you rather be ruled by one dictator 1000 miles away or 1000 dictators 1 mile away?" (approximate quote). If you don't have a strong man in charge like a Palpatine, you are domineered by a whole pile of petty people in your area, boss hogs, so to speak.
As to motives, there is a range of extremes on petty empire building. What you state, Diana, sounds less so than most; however, the point is we all do to some extent. To be totally devoid of such, one would have to live like Jesus Christ or a Buddist monk. This is not a practical or available option for most people. What I am saying is that all of us must use some Sithness in our lives just to exist, even the nicest people. As long as we are human, we partake of both good and evil. You can't exclusively choose one or the other until you are dead and are a ghost on the other side.
Lord Cassus
07-01-2006, 13:57
One thing about sidious, he seems so smart and manipulative. however he tells anakin that his master told the apprentice (sidious) everything he knew. If that was the case why did he kill him BEFORE he learned the secret to immortality? it dosent seem like sidous to mess up like that. ive always wondered about this
Seti-I-Shadim
07-01-2006, 14:33
One thing about sidious, he seems so smart and manipulative. however he tells anakin that his master told the apprentice (sidious) everything he knew. If that was the case why did he kill him BEFORE he learned the secret to immortality? it dosent seem like sidous to mess up like that. ive always wondered about this
There is an interesting line concerning a possible answer on the Darth Plagueis Wiki page.
As Kreia explains in Knights of the Old Republic II, some Force abilities cannot be taught. This idea may be relevant to Palpatine's assertion that Plagueis "taught his apprentice everything he knew".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Plagueis
Then again, if the Darth Plagueis + midichlorians=Anakin Skywalker theory is true, Palpatine may have felt that he was running out of time once success was achieved with creating Anakin. ( Incidentally, wouldn't that make Anakin technically a Sithspawn??:lol: )
I have a feeling though that both the Darth Bane(9/06) & the Darth Plagueis (2008 ) novels will alter alot of our own views on this. I'm looking forward to it. I find Plagueis much more interesting than Palpatine, but thats personal preference.
Good point though, Lord Cassus.
- Seti
Mrs. Darth Vader
09-16-2006, 04:45
Palpatine was the smartest of all the Sith because he was the only one to pull it off. Palpatine rose to power while other Sith got petty Empires or destracted by the dazzle of wealth and capital. Palpatine like Lenin changed the whole galactic government and how things were done. When Palpatine kept the galactic senate intact, it became what is called a " rubber stamp" senate inacting Palpatine's will. A earthly example is Hitler had the Reich Stag still exist while he was in power. Everyone knows that the Reich Stag was a "rubber stamp" on Hitler's polocies. So just because he kept the appearance of the republic until Ep. IV does not mean the reality of the republic was kept. The Duma in the Soviet Union is another example. They helped to enact Lenin's will. Stalin ( Vader) did the dirty work of eliminateing the enimies of the Soviet state. Everyone in Russia cheared when the Koolaks (Russian Warlords ) were killed. When a ruleing class gets too cocky they cease treat the masses fairly and begin to abuse the people. They force the masses to stop complaining and and go out of their way to silance them. As a result of this forced silance, the masses silantly hate their oppressors. When the brilliant statesman like Palpatine notices this descrepancy between those in their Ivory towers and the common man, he begins to posistion his peices and takes power by degrees. Then at the right time like the Cobra, he strikes never missing his mark. Then when Palpatine rids his enimies he swings around quickly and appeals to the mass who gladly takes his hand for freeing them from their oppressor. Those in their Ivory Towers never see it comming because usually the Ivory Tower set at this time are so cocky and sure of their power and too buisy oppressing they fail to see the obvious.
SonnyBlack
09-16-2006, 06:22
One thing about sidious, he seems so smart and manipulative. however he tells anakin that his master told the apprentice (sidious) everything he knew. If that was the case why did he kill him BEFORE he learned the secret to immortality? it dosent seem like sidous to mess up like that. ive always wondered about thisBut in the books Palapatine did know how to transfer his body from one host to the next thus keeping his "soul" alive or immortal however the flaw was he needed the host to hold his soul. Before he could get a stable host (Anakin Solo) as opposed to clones he was stopped. Obviously his master was not immortal if he did not survive...I believe this is what he mean't by immortal (it's not, but to a sith who could stop him from getting a new host?).
Empress Palpatine
09-16-2006, 06:33
Were these persons willing hosts for Palpatine's soul to enter?
SonnyBlack
09-16-2006, 06:44
Were these persons willing hosts for Palpatine's soul to enter?after his death to vader he used clones, yet do to the nature of the clones they were unable to possess the power that he had thus quickly deteriorated. anakin solo's body already powerful with force energies would be able to host his power and give him many years (like his orginal body did) until he again would need to switch. No Anakin wouldn't be a willing host (if you have ever seen chucky it would be like what he was doing) palpatine would perform a ritual (which he was doing) at the end expelling anakin solos spirit from his body and replacing it with his.
Empress Palpatine
09-16-2006, 06:55
What if it were a woman? Could the two souls just then merge together? (or had nobody thought of that). Which books are these where he does all this?
SonnyBlack
09-16-2006, 07:34
What if it were a woman? Could the two souls just then merge together? (or had nobody thought of that). Which books are these where he does all this?Well I don't know how the writers would write it but I don't imagine so. I don't think sex would be a relevant issue and Palpatine would just take her body. The books are Dark Empire II and Empire's End and I was mistaken a traitor bribes Palpatine's cloning supervisor to tamper with the Emperor's stored samples. This causes the clones to deteriorate at a rapid rate although I would think his power had a big role in the deterioration also.
Mrs. Darth Vader
09-18-2006, 06:27
The reason Empress Palpatine asked if the person could be a girl and this person be a willing person to share the body with Palpatine is because in esoteric belief systems If the two were opposite sexes they can then both inhabit the one body and be twice as powerfull. The old the two become as one principle. If the person is willing agian this adds to their joint power. In real life esoteric religions if the person is unwilling it weakens the one forceing himself on the other one. If willing it makes the two become one and more powerfull. This is what is behind all that witchcraft rituals of unions. If the body is not a baby in a whomb waiting to be born as in the usual form of reancarnation, than it is what is refered to as a walk-in or Quantum leap. Same sex does not work in walk-in situations. The spirits will repell each other like two same ends of a magnet. You need the positive charge( the male) and the negitive charge(the female) for the union to hold. So here is the cool, What If empress Palpatine really existed and Emperor Palpatine really existed and he did a walk-in on Empress Palpatine.
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